Why do teachers constantly tell me my kids are ‘quiet’?

[little lion]

Don’t worry, @onetrick. We all muck up sometimes!

 

signed,

a former “quiet achiever” 

[TheGreenSheep]

I have received those comments too. Really annoyed me as it was portrayed as a bug, not a feature. At the end of year 4, one teacher said she would happily have a class full of DSs, so I guess it was favourable behaviour 

I wonder if the 'quiet' comment is because they arent being naughty and demanding in class so the teacher doesn't make an effort to get to know them and their learning style, which kind of makes them overlooked. So maybe its an issue for the teacher, and not the child and parent??

[LifesGood]

6 hours ago, ArabellaKagical said:

Can you give the teacher input? there is nothing wrong with being quiet in itself, especially if they are handling school work well, so a teacher can't always tell if its an issue - ia child that is quiet at home and quiet at school is not likely an issue but if the child is not quiet at home but quiet at school, there may be an issue to sort out.

DD has 9 teachers, DS has 6. I'm not keen to give input x 15. 

I guess I would like to know the 'so what' and 'what next' - I can ask those questions.

Tomorrow is DS's P-T meetings, I'll ask his main teacher some specific questions. Can I have some help phrasing them please? Bear in mind DS will be with me and I don't want to be rude or abrasive.

[banyan]

"In what ways would it help you as a teacher, were  DS to be less quiet?"

"When are some times you would like DS to speak up and why will that help you and him in this subject?"

" Can you give DS some examples of when students changing their behaviour and speaking up more has helped them to do better in class/ enjoy the subject more/ develop a better relationship with you?"

 

[Nassie_girl]

I would take it as a compliement.

 

My kids go to the same high school l went to. And once at parent teacher interviews l met a teacher who taught me all those years ago. She gave me a look when l walked in and then had to ask " l taught you didn't l? In year 7, you were such a quiet and well behaved child, such a delight to teach and now l can see the same qualities in your daughter. A real delight to teach".... I thought if she remembered me (from a year 7 class) and and was able to remember what l was like then it had to be a postitve impact on her with her teaching life. 

 

I was always the quiet kid, but once you got to know me my sense of humour would come out. But l didn't like speaking in class, one asl was always talked over or waited patiently till someone stopped so l could jump in or just hated being cente of attention... Now the worst for me was the Orals you had to do in the front of class... Urghhhh

 

Still hate it today

[LifesGood]

31 minutes ago, banyan said:

"In what ways would it help you as a teacher, were  DS to be less quiet?"

"When are some times you would like DS to speak up and why will that help you and him in this subject?"

" Can you give DS some examples of when students changing their behaviour and speaking up more has helped them to do better in class/ enjoy the subject more/ develop a better relationship with you?"

 

These are good questions. Thank you.

[Babetty]

You could ask "When you say quiet, is that  a compliment on his behaviour, a suggestion he speak up more in class or both?" If said with a smile, it's direct but not aggressive in any way. 

[onetrick]

Similar to my comment above (the one I thought I had typed), I'd ask about whether your child could email any questions outside of class time in order to gain confidence in communicating with the teacher? Communicating is the skill that might need working on with a quiet student (if anything), so this could be an option that might be accessible.

If the teacher says 'no, they seem to understand' and still suggest that it's a problem, then I'd call them out as the pp said above as they are just picking on your DD.

[Greenbean]

Apparently my mum was told this when I was in primary school.(particularly early). I was encouraged to be more vocal and grew out of my shyness. In about year 9/10 a high school teacher told her I was too rowdy in class. She told him point blank she was told to encourage me to speak up more and now it's a done deal. You can't win really

[Ballogo]

**frantically rereads report comments - due tomorrow - to check for "quiet" - none found**

My descriptors of how my students learn include enthusiastic, active learner, active participant, curious, co-operative, hard worker, persistent, thoughtful, positive, engaged, proactive learner....

[Guest Ilovemydogs]

12 hours ago, 4hunter said:

My daughter gets similar comments but it's usually followed by something like. "Needs to participate more in class discussions".  

This comment really bugs me. Not all kids are confident speaking up in class. Even as an adult I still find it difficult and uncomfortable to speak in a big group or even a small group if I don’t know the people well.

In my previous life as a manager I used to dread meetings with the other managers as I felt intimidated and rarely if ever contributed to the discussion unless it was directly related to my department. I wrote in one of my performance reviews that I needed to work on that and my manager said he didn’t see it as an issue. Was pleasantly surprised to realise he understood not everyone is an extrovert who loves to talk!

[LifesGood]

Does speaking up in class contribute to the grade they are given?

[Prancer]

I probably could have gotten this said to me at school, I was compliant, well behaved, a good student and not very confident speaking up.  Never had it with my children, doubt I ever will!  I have 2 boys with ADHD and my daughter is a bit ‘out there’. Parent teacher is always nerve wracking for me as I don’t know what I will get.  I have joked before (not in parent teacher!) that at least my kids won’t be forgotten or blend into the background at school.

 

I think you could take this comment either way.  The kid’s high school is always big on assuming positive intent - so assume it is a positive unless it is explicitly stated that there is a problem.  I would much rather an ambiguous comment than a list of negatives or the feeling of dread that your complex child is not suited to the school system - you can tell I just love parent teacher - not.

[Ballogo]

32 minutes ago, LifesGood said:

Does speaking up in class contribute to the grade they are given?

I think it is more complicated than "speaking up in class".  The Australian Curriculum has General Strands one of which is: "Personal and Social Capability".  This is how it is broadly described:

Students learn to negotiate and communicate effectively with others; work in teams, positively contribute to groups and collaboratively make decisions; resolve conflict and reach positive outcomes. They develop the ability to initiate and manage successful personal relationships, and participate in a range of social and communal activities. Social management involves building skills associated with leadership, such as mentoring and role modelling. In developing and acting with personal and social capability, students:

• communicate effectively
• work collaboratively
• make decisions
• negotiate and resolve conflict
• develop leadership skills.

So being able to communicate effectively is embedded in the curriculum.

There is evidence that talking is beneficial to learning - classroom discussion has an effect size of 0.82 on Hattie's list of teaching strategies.  This makes it an incredibly effective teaching and learning tool.

I believe that it's all about how class discussion is managed.  In my class we have a "talking buddy".  If I pose a question, then students turn and talk to their talking buddy.  This means that every student is provided with the opportunity to think and discuss the question or concept.  If someone doesn't know a response to the concept then hopefully their talking buddy does and they get to hear a peer articulate their thoughts.  It provides what is called "rehearsal" time.  So rather than students looking like a deer in headlights when you ask a question, all students get a chance to rehearse.  Then without any hands up, the teacher can call on any student to share a response, because all students have had time to process and discuss the concept.  This alleviates the issue of the same 3-4 students always having their hands up and the others relying on that.  Some years I have an icy pole stick for each student and randomly draw it out from a cup helping to ensure I call on a range of students through the day.  It means I hear from more students.  It means that students are all processing and participating in the learning, thus increasing their understanding of the concept.

And there's more to it than that: modelling, explicitly teaching students to communicate in small groups, setting up a classroom culture of trust etc.

[LifesGood]

That's really, really helpful thank you @Ballogo

What does this mean please? "classroom discussion has an effect size of 0.82 on Hattie's list of teaching strategies"

Perhaps what I need to ask the teachers is 'what are you doing to enable quiet students to have opportunities to be heard and draw them out, and to allow them to practise speaking up'?

[Ballogo]

1 minute ago, LifesGood said:

That's really, really helpful thank you @Ballogo

What does this mean please? "classroom discussion has an effect size of 0.82 on Hattie's list of teaching strategies"

Perhaps what I need to ask the teachers is 'what are you doing to enable quiet students to have opportunities to be heard and draw them out, and to allow them to practise speaking up'?

John Hattie performed a meta analysis of the research into effective teaching strategies and ranked 138 of them related to learning outcomes from "very positive" effects to "very negative effects".  Anything above 0.4 was considered to be a positive effect.  So 0.82 means that classroom discussion has a "very positive" effect on learning.

Here is a list of the teaching strategies ranked: https://visible-learning.org/hattie-ranking-influences-effect-sizes-learning-achievement/

This research has been a driver for things such as the HITS - "High Impact Teaching Strategies" developed by the Victorian Education Department https://www.education.vic.gov.au/school/teachers/teachingresources/practice/improve/Pages/hits.aspx  To have the greatest impact on student learning we should be embedding these practices into our teaching. 

(Sorry - I get a little excited when talking about teaching and learning!)

[Ballogo]

And while I'm on a roll...

At my previous school we got rid of "Show and Tell".  The students who were good at it, were always going to be good at it. The students who forgot or found it terrifying or struggled etc. were not being helped by the weekly "Show and Tell".  We changed it and gave it another name "Talk, Listen and Learn".  We assigned a range of talking and listening tasks and then allocated 30 minutes a week for this in the classroom - rather than sitting through 20+ individual Show and Tells every week.

So it might have been to bring something in and then share it with a talking buddy.  Or talk about something at home and then work in a small group to discuss and create something on that topic.  One time it was a series of questions about family and we collated the information into class graphs - it involved a lot of talking!  Other times, it was a simple response to a question shared during Circle Time - always with a "pass" option.

There are so many ways to encourage speaking and listening in the classroom which don't involve a child having to put his/her hand up or respond in front of the entire class or speak formally to the entire class.

[MagdaRegis]

37 minutes ago, Ballogo said:

I think it is more complicated than "speaking up in class".  The Australian Curriculum has General Strands one of which is: "Personal and Social Capability".  This is how it is broadly described:

Students learn to negotiate and communicate effectively with others; work in teams, positively contribute to groups and collaboratively make decisions; resolve conflict and reach positive outcomes. They develop the ability to initiate and manage successful personal relationships, and participate in a range of social and communal activities. Social management involves building skills associated with leadership, such as mentoring and role modelling. In developing and acting with personal and social capability, students:

• communicate effectively
• work collaboratively
• make decisions
• negotiate and resolve conflict
• develop leadership skills.

So being able to communicate effectively is embedded in the curriculum.

There is evidence that talking is beneficial to learning - classroom discussion has an effect size of 0.82 on Hattie's list of teaching strategies.  This makes it an incredibly effective teaching and learning tool.

I believe that it's all about how class discussion is managed.  In my class we have a "talking buddy".  If I pose a question, then students turn and talk to their talking buddy.  This means that every student is provided with the opportunity to think and discuss the question or concept.  If someone doesn't know a response to the concept then hopefully their talking buddy does and they get to hear a peer articulate their thoughts.  It provides what is called "rehearsal" time.  So rather than students looking like a deer in headlights when you ask a question, all students get a chance to rehearse.  Then without any hands up, the teacher can call on any student to share a response, because all students have had time to process and discuss the concept.  This alleviates the issue of the same 3-4 students always having their hands up and the others relying on that.  Some years I have an icy pole stick for each student and randomly draw it out from a cup helping to ensure I call on a range of students through the day.  It means I hear from more students.  It means that students are all processing and participating in the learning, thus increasing their understanding of the concept.

And there's more to it than that: modelling, explicitly teaching students to communicate in small groups, setting up a classroom culture of trust etc.

Yep. It's actually also included in the English curriculum in primary school, with outcomes like "Engage in conversations and discussions, using active listening behaviours, showing interest, and contributing ideas, information and questions" and "Use interaction skills including turn-taking, recognising the contributions of others, speaking clearly and using appropriate volume and pace" in Yr1 through to "Participate in and contribute to discussions, clarifying and interrogating ideas, developing and supporting arguments, sharing and evaluating information, experiences and opinions" and "Use interaction skills, varying conventions of spoken interactions such as voice volume, tone, pitch and pace, according to group size, formality of interaction and needs and expertise of the audience" in Yr6.

If I've described a child as 'quiet', it's generally not just that they are reserved in class, but rather that they will usually not speak when asked to share their answers with a partner or in a small group of three, will only answer when called upon and usually speak so quietly and unclearly that I have to ask them to repeat what they have said two-three times and then sometimes still just had to smile and nod and move on. 

[LifesGood]

8 minutes ago, MagdaRegis said:

If I've described a child as 'quiet', it's generally not just that they are reserved in class, but rather that they will usually not speak when asked to share their answers with a partner or in a small group of three, will only answer when called upon and usually speak so quietly and unclearly that I have to ask them to repeat what they have said two-three times and then sometimes still just had to smile and nod and move on. 

This sounds horrifying for the quiet child.

[MagdaRegis]

1 minute ago, LifesGood said:

This sounds horrifying for the quiet child.

It genuinely is. This is why we raise it with parents and have individual plans developed and make adjustments so that we are not continually putting them in that position day after day.

[LifesGood]

Actually, I’m beginning to wonder if there might be a problem with what the curriculum is trying to achieve. Is it maybe too much to expect teachers to churn out 30 kids each year who are all expert communicators and extrovert public speakers?

[LifesGood]

3 minutes ago, MagdaRegis said:

It genuinely is. This is why we raise it with parents and have individual plans developed and make adjustments so that we are not continually putting them in that position day after day.

I don’t think my kids have individual plans to deal with their quietness. Could be wrong, but….no.

[Rockwiz]

13 hours ago, Julie3Girls said:

Saying nothing in class and then emailing a question makes perfect sense to me - some kids find asking questions in the classroom difficult. Worried about asking a “stupid question”, that other kids will see they don’t know something. Sometimes one on one time isn’t an option, especially for the “quiet” kids who are seen as independent workers. 
My oldest is dyslexic, wasn’t diagnosed until the end of yr7, and had huge anxiety as a result. Perfectionism in her school work was a huge issue for her.  Class time was spent focusing intensely on her work, to compensate for the dyslexia. Would have loved it if she had email communication with her teachers in primary school - maybe she would have gone beyond being ignored as the “quiet child” and maybe they would have realised she had a significant learning issue. 

I’m sure there are many other similar reasons for why a child might not want to ask a question in class.

My Dd2 in senior high school will often email/message her teachers. It is strongly encouraged by the teachers - sometimes questions occur to you after class, sometimes the teacher has been busy giving someone else one-on-one class time

Email is private, and just easier for a lot of people.  At any age ... just look at the number of people who prefer to txt or email in preference to  making a phone call.  If a student is more comfortable asking for help in that way, then I am immensely happy that it is an option.

Couldn’t agree with you more, excellent post. Both my kids got the ‘very quiet’ thing over the years. The oldest has ASD and DD lacks confidence speaking in front of groups which is why she is quiet. 

Edited June 17, 2021 by Rockwiz

[Julie3Girls]

12 minutes ago, MagdaRegis said:

It genuinely is. This is why we raise it with parents and have individual plans developed and make adjustments so that we are not continually putting them in that position day after day.

That would be a nope from my experience.  Obviously very teacher dependent.  
Usually, when my child was described as “quiet” on a report card, and I followed up in the parent teacher interview, there was no plan to work on it, no discussion with me as a parent.  Simply a case of “oh, she’s very quiet, gets all her work done, she is doing fine”.  The only time they have seemed to want to get my kids to talk in class was when they forced them to do a speech in front of the whole class.
 

I get encouraging communication. I get encouraging kids to speak up and join in conversations. I even get encouraging public speaking. But there is a difference between encouraging and teaching a child to be more confident, to speak up, opposed to forcing them to be someone they are not.

I know my kids got marked down for things that involved public speaking etc. and honestly, it doesn’t worry me, because it is who they are. I know that the English grade on their report for first semester in yr7 is not at all a sign of their abilities, because the major assessment is a speaking task. For all three of them, their grades skyrocketed in second semester, when public speaking was out of the picture.  Each time, the teacher made a fuss about how great it was that they had improved so much over the year ... no, you just graded them on something they were good at during the second half of the year lol.

 

[MagdaRegis]

21 minutes ago, LifesGood said:

Actually, I’m beginning to wonder if there might be a problem with what the curriculum is trying to achieve. Is it maybe too much to expect teachers to churn out 30 kids each year who are all expert communicators and extrovert public speakers?

That is a completely different issue, and I wouldn't want to comment on how many teachers would like to agree.