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Hope we don't get like Europe


pelagic

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Looks like Europe is being pummelled with COVID again and their riots look to be worse than ours. These are countries I wouldn't really expect to see this happening. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisakim/2021/11/20/tens-of-thousands-march-in-vienna-at-least-two-protesters-shot-by-rotterdam-police-as-opposition-against-covid-measures-intensifies-in-europe/?sh=72f0ffe53a21

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Argh, will this damn pandemic never end?? Are we going be in lockdown again next winter too??

Cause you know what? People will riot in the streets here too if they try to lockdown Melbourne again. Not just the far right and conspiracy theorists, it will be every day people protesting. Many people are fed up and won’t do it again. I won’t do it again. No way. I’ll pay it lip service and try to avoid fines, but I’m not staying at home again for months at a time. 

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Unless each country closes the borders for years and years not sure the answer, we can get all the vaccines we want (yes I am fully vaccinated!) And boosters but what is the actual to stop it?

Once the borders open up the numbers will grow 

If not then what is the answer to stop it?

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HuggleMonster
6 minutes ago, LifesGood said:

High vaccination rates, boosters and continued used of masks and social distancing are the way forward. Its not rocket science any longer.

The failure of so many to understand this makes me wonder if this is the planet's Easter Island event.

Gibraltar actually has a 99% vaccination rate and they are locking down as well.  It appears that even 100% vaccination isn't going to stop the spread of a new variant.

I'm not sure what we can do.  I agree with LemonMyrtle - I think most Australians will go crazy if we need to lock down at greater than 95% vaccination rates.  We were sold the line that vaccination is the answer, but how is it if it is a different variant each time?

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5 minutes ago, HuggleMonster said:

Gibraltar actually has a 99% vaccination rate and they are locking down as well.  It appears that even 100% vaccination isn't going to stop the spread of a new variant.

I'm not sure what we can do.  I agree with LemonMyrtle - I think most Australians will go crazy if we need to lock down at greater than 95% vaccination rates.  We were sold the line that vaccination is the answer, but how is it if it is a different variant each time?

Exactly. I think many people realise (or are beginning to realise) that a COVID-19 hospitalisation, especially in intensive care, occupies a bed for far longer than most other conditions. This is what is causing so much stress on hospital systems around the world - the duration people are in ICU (weeks at a time, not a few days).

I think people will start arguing that if we are 95% vaccinated, but it still places strain on the health system, then build up the health system/ICU capacity so that it can cope and we can live our lives relatively normally (masks being, in my view, a mandatory new normal).

Locking down each time hospitalisations place stress on a hospital system that wasn't designed for 2-3 week ICU stays isn't a sustainable policy response. It won't just be the loony left and lunar right protesting, it will be normal people. We need to build our capacity to deal with COVID-19 circulating whilst semi-normal life goes on, and quickly. 

 

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It is a combination of those things. Place an 'and' between each of the items listed. 

I don't think Gibraltar is a statistically significant example. 

Austria, Germany and other European countries have vaccination rates which are too low, with waning effectiveness. The use of masks has decreased significantly and people are no longer complying with social distancing rules in large enough numbers. 

We will be there too if we make the same mistakes.

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10 minutes ago, LunaFreya said:

Makes me wonder if there were riots when they closed down public places because of plague in Newton’s or Shakespeare’s time.

I think this is an issue somewhat unique to covid. While Covid can be deadly, it isn’t that deadly compared to other diseases, especially not in developed countries. If it had the same death rates as the plague, no one would go anywhere. Not even to protest. 

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39 minutes ago, Lurker said:

We need everyone to get vaccinated. Germany and some other European countries haven't mandated and this is what happens. 

Germany has zero mandates I discovered the other day, not even for aged care workers. Surveys apparently show the significant minority yet to be vaccinated, have no intention of doing so. 

The irony of the mandates protection the protesters here from being locked down again!

Jacqui Lambie was on fire today.

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35 minutes ago, HuggleMonster said:

Gibraltar actually has a 99% vaccination rate and they are locking down as well.  It appears that even 100% vaccination isn't going to stop the spread of a new variant.

I'm not sure what we can do.  I agree with LemonMyrtle - I think most Australians will go crazy if we need to lock down at greater than 95% vaccination rates.  We were sold the line that vaccination is the answer, but how is it if it is a different variant each time?

99% of which age groups, though?  We know that 16+ isn't sufficient to keep covid under control, and that early vaccinating places now desperately need boosters.

One thing Australia has in its favour, if it can take advantage of it, is to have booster uptake be really high, so that coming into next winter the boosters are on board.

My husband's and mine are both booked in for January.

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I am still hoping adequate treatment and instant testing are on the way. Especially for travellers. International travellers are the biggest risk to everyone, so there should be real safeguards in place. 

Also, masks should stay. I am always mystified when mask requirements are removed. 

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1 hour ago, Pooks said:

I’m from Dutch stock, doesn’t surprise me in the slightest. There’s a hard right element in that country that makes Pauline Hanson look like a sweetheart. 

I know there's a hard right element but the police shooting people is what surprised me. The article doesn't say what bullets were used or anything but it sounds like they were real bullets. 

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19 minutes ago, Bornagirl said:

Germany has zero mandates I discovered the other day, not even for aged care workers. Surveys apparently show the significant minority yet to be vaccinated, have no intention of doing so. 

The irony of the mandates protection the protesters here from being locked down again!

Jacqui Lambie was on fire today.

Germany, because of WW2, is very, very anti mandates, anti govt control, anti fascism - not that I'm saying mask/vax mandates are fascism, but I think if I grew up in that culture, I would. It's a mind blowingly horrifying example of the worst that can happen. 

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13 minutes ago, pelagic said:

I know there's a hard right element but the police shooting people is what surprised me. The article doesn't say what bullets were used or anything but it sounds like they were real bullets. 

Mainland Europe is pretty au fait with police  waving guns around. 

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Sugarplum Poobah
27 minutes ago, Bornagirl said:

99% of which age groups, though?  We know that 16+ isn't sufficient to keep covid under control, and that early vaccinating places now desperately need boosters.

One thing Australia has in its favour, if it can take advantage of it, is to have booster uptake be really high, so that coming into next winter the boosters are on board.

My husband's and mine are both booked in for January.

Gibraltar has a population of under 34,000 people. I suspect this is probably far more about available hospital facilities.

It's not statistically significant in the way that Germany, Austria etc are

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I was reading about one of the new treatments, which is eye wateringly expensive, and at least in this article, doesn't get given out at random, and I would assume is used if the person has a good chance of survival anyway:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/21/icu-is-full-of-the-unvaccinated-my-patience-with-them-is-wearing-thin

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41 minutes ago, Bornagirl said:

I was reading about one of the new treatments, which is eye wateringly expensive, and at least in this article, doesn't get given out at random, and I would assume is used if the person has a good chance of survival anyway:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/21/icu-is-full-of-the-unvaccinated-my-patience-with-them-is-wearing-thin

Maybe that is the answer. You can get treatment in hospital as unvaxxed with COVID, but if you want this one, you have to fork out the money for it. Still not sure I like that idea but it's a pretty specific treatment option. 

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From a lot of what I can tell, the countries in Europe are combatting Winter + waning vaccine efficacy and a less then stellar booster program being rolled out. A few people I follow on IG from Denmark/Norway have basically said that their booster programs are only now being rolled out. Considering at least one of them was fully vaccinated 8-9 months ago, this is part of what is not helping the situation. That and the waning use of masks or social distances. Add in winter coming when traditionally people are not as outdoors as often and are inside and it's a covid flare waiting to happen. One thing I will say for Australia, rolling out our booster/3rd vaccine closer to being double vaccinated will play in our favour I think. Guess there is some sliver lining to the disastrous vaccine rollout.

What I would be interested in knowing is how the data of the booster is going? I read somewhere, that it might be the vaccine is one that requires 3 doses to trigger peak immunity rather then requiring a booster every 6 months. And then hopefully it will just be something like the annual flu jab.

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14 minutes ago, pelagic said:

Maybe that is the answer. You can get treatment in hospital as unvaxxed with COVID, but if you want this one, you have to fork out the money for it. Still not sure I like that idea but it's a pretty specific treatment option. 

I don't know for sure, but I suspect at least part of the challenge is the scarcity of that medication, which is why it's being so carefully prescribed.   Two thousand pounds per treatment is expensive for a drug, but I'd hate to think what a day in intensive Care costs a health system.

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