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Aged Care Royal Commission


LemonMyrtle

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LemonMyrtle

I’m just angry. Angry that 1/3 of aged care residents are receiving sub standard care. Angry that something like 68% are malnourished, and about 1/10 abused. I’m angry that there are no minimum qualifications for staff or minimum ratios. And I’m angry that this has been going on for years and years and years and no one has done anything. It’s just appalling.


And I’m angry that the government is already weaselling out of doing anything serious about it. Because money talks, and the owners of these big aged care businesses obviously have their hands in government policy too.

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LemonMyrtle

They’re not even getting their teeth brushed daily!


And ScoMo won’t even commit to a minimum of 3 hours care per person because apparently not all residents need 3 hours of care.

3 hours. Can anyone feed, clothe, wash, themselves in just 3 hours a day??

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Anyone who doesn't 'need' three hours of care almost certainly 'needs' someone to spend time with them that isn't specifically to do with the things listed. Many people in aged care can actually feed themselves, half get dressed, maybe not wash themselves so in that sense it's correct. Neither my mother or MIL would have needed three hours in total when they were first there but they sure as hell would have needed three hours of human contact. Fortunately we were close by in both cases.

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I’m just angry. Angry that 1/3 of aged care residents are receiving sub standard care. Angry that something like 68% are malnourished, and about 1/10 abused. I’m angry that there are no minimum qualifications for staff or minimum ratios. And I’m angry that this has been going on for years and years and years and no one has done anything. It’s just appalling.


And I’m angry that the government is already weaselling out of doing anything serious about it. Because money talks, and the owners of these big aged care businesses obviously have their hands in government policy too.

 

To be perfectly honest these stats sound completely fictitious. I am more inclined to believe 1/10 are not abused as a more accurate prediction because some carers do not recognise their abuse as they are so poorly trained.

My mum was in a 'better than many' Aged Care facility, she was lucid and compliant however almost every time I visited her there was a new bruise or skin tear on her arms where they'd grabbed her.

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LemonMyrtle

I’m just angry. Angry that 1/3 of aged care residents are receiving sub standard care. Angry that something like 68% are malnourished, and about 1/10 abused. I’m angry that there are no minimum qualifications for staff or minimum ratios. And I’m angry that this has been going on for years and years and years and no one has done anything. It’s just appalling.


And I’m angry that the government is already weaselling out of doing anything serious about it. Because money talks, and the owners of these big aged care businesses obviously have their hands in government policy too.

 

To be perfectly honest these stats sound completely fictitious. I am more inclined to believe 1/10 are not abused as a more accurate prediction because some carers do not recognise their abuse as they are so poorly trained.

My mum was in a 'better than many' Aged Care facility, she was lucid and compliant however almost every time I visited her there was a new bruise or skin tear on her arms where they'd grabbed her.

 

Yes, the stats are the best they have I guess, but they do mention that a lot is unreported. People in aged care cannot often tell you what happened :(

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LemonMyrtle

My Nanna was in hospital for a short while, and in that hospital situation, of actual staff ratios, and trained staff, my mum and her siblings still had to make sure someone was there for every meal or my Nanna just wouldn’t get enough help to finish her meal. She just wouldn’t eat, and wouldn’t make a fuss either. She had a broken elbow, an obvious impediment to eating, and yet she wouldn’t get the help she needed.


She ended up in a good aged care home, with a lot of help from family members advocating for her. Still wasn’t great. But she did Ok, she had a gorgeous private room with a lovely view.


But I can just imagine what happens behind closed doors, in aged care, without properly trained staff or family to help you. It would be so much worse than even the royal commission found, and that’s bad enough.

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Sandgropergirl

Despite what EB thinks - 60% of aged care organisations (and many are NFP) are running at a loss. Or that part of the business unit is (say, Bupa), They make money out of retirement villages but high end aged care, particularly dementia patients, not a chance.


No Government is going to fund it out of taxpayers money entirely, Essentially, it needs to be at least partly paid for by users. Far more so than it does now. As it stands the big sum put in to get a place (and that's when a person is single, if there is a dependent in there it cant be used for a place) is refundable so you get it back.


And yes, that will mean a lot of entitled types will not get the fat inheritance they wanted,

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LemonMyrtle

Despite what EB thinks - 60% of aged care organisations (and many are NFP) are running at a loss. Or that part of the business unit is (say, Bupa), They make money out of retirement villages but high end aged care, particularly dementia patients, not a chance.


No Government is going to fund it out of taxpayers money entirely, Essentially, it needs to be at least partly paid for by users. Far more so than it does now. As it stands the big sum put in to get a place (and that's when a person is single, if there is a dependent in there it cant be used for a place) is refundable so you get it back.


And yes, that will mean a lot of entitled types will not get the fat inheritance they wanted,

 

But it is partially paid for by users. And if they’re so unprofitable then why do they keep opening them? Got a link for your stats? I’m surprised if 60% are making a loss.


There is money there. Maybe if you run a good service with enough staff you will make a loss, But if you cut corners you can obviously make a profit, because they are making a profit, they’re not doing it out of the goodness of their hearts.

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MintyBiscuit

I’ve only been able to bring myself to read parts so far. We had to put my grandmother into an aged care home for the last nine months of her life, and though we were fortunate to find a place in a good one and able to pay the fees, I know that it wasn’t perfect. It’s such a messy situation and I don’t see it being an easy fix

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Despite what EB thinks - 60% of aged care organisations (and many are NFP) are running at a loss. Or that part of the business unit is (say, Bupa), They make money out of retirement villages but high end aged care, particularly dementia patients, not a chance.


No Government is going to fund it out of taxpayers money entirely, Essentially, it needs to be at least partly paid for by users. Far more so than it does now. As it stands the big sum put in to get a place (and that's when a person is single, if there is a dependent in there it cant be used for a place) is refundable so you get it back.


And yes, that will mean a lot of entitled types will not get the fat inheritance they wanted,

 

But it is partially paid for by users. And if they’re so unprofitable then why do they keep opening them? Got a link for your stats? I’m surprised if 60% are making a loss.


There is money there. Maybe if you run a good service with enough staff you will make a loss, But if you cut corners you can obviously make a profit, because they are making a profit, they’re not doing it out of the goodness of their hearts.

 


The ones opening will almost certainly be 'extra services' which is a totally different ball game from any home that's not classified as such.


Having been through the finances twice, once under the old system with my mother, and once under the current system with my MIL, I can say that unless 'a user' has actually done it, in excruciating detail, then they probably won't know how it works.

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Well this article says the majority make a profit. But the financial waters are so murky that actual profits may be much higher


https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.smh.com.au/national/profits-in-nursing-homes-in-weak-relationship-to-quality-of-care-report-20200908-p55tko.html

 

This is the gist of the problem:


"but there is a weak relationship between the level of revenue and quality of care."


There are fabulous and appalling places, and it's difficult for we consumers to be able to tell the difference. When people need one, they are usually managing several things at the same time: their own job, their relative's residence, their relative's hospital stay, whether their relative can go home, their own family, their relative's finances, how aged care finances works ... then you get a list of places with vacancies and have to decide quick smart if you'll take one.


It's still a fact that many of the new places you see opening up will be 'extra services' which might as well be another subject.

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Guest Alias Grace

I don't work in aged care but do have some knowledge of the sector. IME the biggest factors influencing the profitability of aged care facilities are occupancy and managing staff costs - in particular, reducing or eliminating reliance on expensive agency staff, Organisations that can maintain their occupancy (through reputation and a robust admissions process), recruit well and manage their staff rosters to avoid reliance on agency staff can and do make a profit. And that's the case in both the for-profit and not-for-profit sector. But it's important to have scale and expertise - it's extremely difficult for small operators in the aged care sector to survive,

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Despite what EB thinks - 60% of aged care organisations (and many are NFP) are running at a loss. Or that part of the business unit is (say, Bupa), They make money out of retirement villages but high end aged care, particularly dementia patients, not a chance.


No Government is going to fund it out of taxpayers money entirely, Essentially, it needs to be at least partly paid for by users. Far more so than it does now. As it stands the big sum put in to get a place (and that's when a person is single, if there is a dependent in there it cant be used for a place) is refundable so you get it back.


And yes, that will mean a lot of entitled types will not get the fat inheritance they wanted,

 

But it is partially paid for by users. And if they’re so unprofitable then why do they keep opening them? Got a link for your stats? I’m surprised if 60% are making a loss.


There is money there. Maybe if you run a good service with enough staff you will make a loss, But if you cut corners you can obviously make a profit, because they are making a profit, they’re not doing it out of the goodness of their hearts.

 

I haven't read this full article because I'm running out the door just now, but yes I have read reports of 60% at a loss. This was the first thing come up when I googled-


https://www.agedcareguide.com.au/talking-aged-care/aged-care-financial-report-card-details-record-financial-risk-for-sector#:~:text=Compared%20to%20their%20last%20performance,a%20loss%20in%202019%2D20.

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purplekitty

The real question is should aged-care be a for-profit enterprise.


John Howard gave us this, among other initiatives that changed Australia.

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Oriental lily

Sometimes I think my Dad stumbled in to a wonderful unicorn home . In the 4 years he gas been there I can honestly say the care has been that these facilities can give .it's clean , the staff are lovely and long term, food is plentiful and good quality .small health concerns are attended quickly ..All the other residents are similar .Those with dementia and other higher needs are brought in to the dining area were the carers move amongst either directly feeding them or opening their containers and helping. It's as real nice warm feeling. My Dad is pretty good still cognitively. And even he says his care is really good ( even though he is pretty grumpy about needing to be there ).

This is not a high end place .He is in there as as a public resident .but everything he needs comes out of his pension .laundry ,extra activities everything .

This is a private company .Freemasons. they are not giving this high care standards from the goodness of their hearts. I am sure it's profitable .so it can be done

So what the hell are these other faculties doing ? Greedy, heartless ?

Interesting even though my Dads facility was in the north west suburbs of melbourne they were able to keep covid totally out of the facility .

This is why we need regulations and standards because good care CAN be delivered within private facilities and make it worthwhile in a business sense .

So why is in it happening everywhere.

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Oriental lily

Purplekitty I was a nursing student back in 1995 in a nursing home placement .that place still gives me nightmares .the care standards were horrific .This not a new issue. This royal commission should have been done at least 30 years ago .

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LemonMyrtle

The real question is should aged-care be a for-profit enterprise.


John Howard gave us this, among other initiatives that changed Australia.

 

Exactly. They shouldn’t be making any profit! None at all. Imagine, if those profits were turned into extra staff hours.

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Despite what EB thinks - 60% of aged care organisations (and many are NFP) are running at a loss. Or that part of the business unit is (say, Bupa), They make money out of retirement villages but high end aged care, particularly dementia patients, not a chance.


No Government is going to fund it out of taxpayers money entirely, Essentially, it needs to be at least partly paid for by users. Far more so than it does now. As it stands the big sum put in to get a place (and that's when a person is single, if there is a dependent in there it cant be used for a place) is refundable so you get it back.


And yes, that will mean a lot of entitled types will not get the fat inheritance they wanted,

It is hard to believe when certain owners of a fed run privately owned place can fly off to Greece to live as soon as their aged care facility has been exposed as a filthy death trap complete with maggots in bed sores the size of a fist.

My mum paid dearly per day for every skin tear she got and cold soup and sandwich she had for lunch every single day.

If some of them are running at a loss it is because money is being squirreled away by bastard owners.


All private aged care facilities are not the same either. Dad and I spent a good year looking at places for mum and we've just gone through it again with dad who has decided he would rather die at home than go into aged care. They all have different financial plans, it appears to be a free for all, nobody is watching.

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Sometimes I think my Dad stumbled in to a wonderful unicorn home . In the 4 years he gas been there I can honestly say the care has been that these facilities can give .it's clean , the staff are lovely and long term, food is plentiful and good quality .small health concerns are attended quickly ..All the other residents are similar .Those with dementia and other higher needs are brought in to the dining area were the carers move amongst either directly feeding them or opening their containers and helping. It's as real nice warm feeling. My Dad is pretty good still cognitively. And even he says his care is really good ( even though he is pretty grumpy about needing to be there ).

This is not a high end place .He is in there as as a public resident .but everything he needs comes out of his pension .laundry ,extra activities everything .

This is a private company .Freemasons. they are not giving this high care standards from the goodness of their hearts. I am sure it's profitable .so it can be done

So what the hell are these other faculties doing ? Greedy, heartless ?

Interesting even though my Dads facility was in the north west suburbs of melbourne they were able to keep covid totally out of the facility .

This is why we need regulations and standards because good care CAN be delivered within private facilities and make it worthwhile in a business sense .

So why is in it happening everywhere.

 

Dad is in a Freemason owned retirement village and since they took ownership his fees have risen beyond belief and what was once provided is now charged for.....eg, to change a light globe.

They have outsourced their emergency call bell and there is NOBODY on site at night to answer a call, instead they have an alarm that goes through to a place in New Zealand who automatically call an ambulance whether it is needed or not.

He looked at a Freemason aged care facility close by and he would have had to pay $650k for a placement. He would not get a public bed as he is a self funded retiree on a small fixed income, it absolutely sucks that he can't get affordable and good care in a nursing home.

I am sure some places have staff who go above and beyond for their patients but if you ask them how it is working for their owners the stories can be shocking.

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Purplekitty I was a nursing student back in 1995 in a nursing home placement .that place still gives me nightmares .the care standards were horrific .This not a new issue. This royal commission should have been done at least 30 years ago .

 

Through the 80s I worked in a small private place in Glen Iris. We were not allowed to work past 30 weeks at our hospital so I'd fill in the next few months in this nursing home as I needed some income since we did not get paid maternity leave. It was okay ( not amazing) the first few years but there was a change of owners and there was a change of most of the carer staff. Verbal and physical abuse was rife, it shocked me so badly I left more incident reports than I can remember which were barely followed up.

I remember a single roast chicken being pulled apart to feed 42 patients so I used to take in bread and fillings and make extra sandwiches for those able to eat.

I was pleased when I had no more need for maternity leave work there and found myself thinking of them always.

You are right, it should have happened 30 years ago :cry:

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purplekitty

Definitely it should have happened back then but privatising was definitely the wrong answer.


I know a few registered nurses who got out in the last couple of decades because the staffing and number of qualified staff reached rock bottom. They couldn't take it anymore.

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