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Is the 'West' the best? (spinoff thread)


Seayork2002

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Seayork2002

to not derail the Meghan Markle thread


Is the way we in the west he best way in the word?


Can we learn and take things from other parts of the world or even just realise just because people don't live the way the way we do it is not always wrong?


Main things I can think of is housing, education, health, technology


Because not everyone has downlights and air conditioning does make it 'primitive' not too?


Chinese medicine has been around a long time, is only Western medicine the way to go?


Is the 'Singapore' schooling method better than ours?


Not everyone has the phone and internet but are they actually missing out by not having it or are we missing out by relying on it too much?


Just some first thoughts and I was not picking on Singapore but I have heard that expression few times where I live

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It depends on what outcome you want as to whether the west is best?


Want lower maternal mortality - West is best. Want higher maternal mortality - Sierra Leone is the place to go.


Want very high academic achievement - Not West. Want high academic achievement with less stressed students? West may be the best.

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Kiwi Bicycle

Oh gee mention Singapore education do you?

What someone who can spout an maths answer instantly, Singapore good for that.

What someone who can think outside the box, problem solve and has creativity? Not Singapore!

This information comes from a DH who has been througha large part of Singapore system, living in Singapore myself, watching 7 cousins in the Singapore education system and talking to lots of expats who work with Singaporeans. These a reason international companies have expats in senior management positions there...

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"The West" taken to extremes is America, which is a failed state. Extreme poverty, social inequality, violence, pollution, war, political instability, and the kind of capitalism that makes a couple of men so rich it drives them crazy, and millions of people at the other end die of malnutrition from the diseases from the open sewer running past their house.

No I'm not stereotyping; I'm half American and have lived there (although not at either extreme of wealth or poverty for myself).

A more moderate/socialist version of western "civilisation", like Australia, is in many ways the best - good health care, a social safety net, free press, high standards of education, a safe democracy where you can express dissent without being rounded up and shot (thanks scummo!). There's a lot wrong with life here, and definitely with politics, but speaking relatively, this is a good place to live.

Comparisons to extremely poor African/Asian/South American countries don't really work because most of them were ruined by colonisation by the west, and still hurting. You're not comparing what they could have been if we'd stayed out of them with what we are now.

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Guest Alias Grace

It depends on what outcome you want as to whether the west is best?


Want lower maternal mortality - West is best. Want higher maternal mortality - Sierra Leone is the place to go.


Want very high academic achievement - Not West. Want high academic achievement with less stressed students? West may be the best.

 

Well - according to statistics - I am better off giving birth in Japan, Singapore and South Korea than I am in the US so I am not sure that your first point is all that accurate.


[mention]Seayork2002[/mention] - to answer your question "can we learn and take things from other parts of the world or even just realise just because people don't live the way the way we do it is not always wrong?", surely the answer is a resounding yes? I would be surprised and dismayed if people - at least on this forum - felt otherwise.

Edited by Alias Grace
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Seayork2002

It depends on what outcome you want as to whether the west is best?


Want lower maternal mortality - West is best. Want higher maternal mortality - Sierra Leone is the place to go.


Want very high academic achievement - Not West. Want high academic achievement with less stressed students? West may be the best.

 

Well - according to statistics - I am better off giving birth in Japan, Singapore and South Korea than I am in the US so I am not sure that you're first point is all that accurate.


@Seayork2002 - to answer your question "can we learn and take things from other parts of the world or even just realise just because people don't live the way the way we do it is not always wrong?", surely the answer is a resounding yes? I would be surprised and dismayed if people - at least on this forum - felt otherwise.

 

I wasn't personally asking!!! just trying to create discussion

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Guest Alias Grace

Oh gee mention Singapore education do you?

What someone who can spout an maths answer instantly, Singapore good for that.

What someone who can think outside the box, problem solve and has creativity? Not Singapore!

This information comes from a DH who has been througha large part of Singapore system, living in Singapore myself, watching 7 cousins in the Singapore education system and talking to lots of expats who work with Singaporeans. These a reason international companies have expats in senior management positions there...

 

Yeah - that's a stereotype about Singaporeans that I have never really understood. I have worked with many Singaporeans over the years - most at relatively senior levels - who run rings around my Australian, US and UK counterparts. Pretty much all of the Singaporeans that I have worked with are smart, hardworking, excellent communicators and great problem solvers. I think that global companies often use expats due to cultural bias and not necessarily because of any shortages in the local talent pool.


Similarly, my DH has several Singaporean friends with whom he undertook his post-grad studies. They are smart, worldly, interesting and well rounded people. I think that, as Australians, we like to think of ourselves as being well rounded - but go to any dinner party or weekend BBQ and what do people invariably talk about: footy/sport, house prices, home renos, reality TV shows and going to Bunnings. I really don't think we're as well rounded and interesting as we think we are.

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Kiwi Bicycle

Oh gee mention Singapore education do you?

What someone who can spout an maths answer instantly, Singapore good for that.

What someone who can think outside the box, problem solve and has creativity? Not Singapore!

This information comes from a DH who has been througha large part of Singapore system, living in Singapore myself, watching 7 cousins in the Singapore education system and talking to lots of expats who work with Singaporeans. These a reason international companies have expats in senior management positions there...

 

Yeah - that's a stereotype about Singaporeans that I have never really understood. I have worked with many Singaporeans over the years - most at relatively senior levels - who run rings around my Australian, US and UK counterparts. Pretty much all of the Singaporeans that I have worked with are smart, hardworking, excellent communicators and great problem solvers. I think that global companies often use expats due to cultural bias and not necessarily because of any shortages in the local talent pool.


Similarly, my DH has several Singaporean friends with whom he undertook his post-grad studies. They are smart, worldly, interesting and well rounded people. I think that, as Australians, we like to think of ourselves as being well rounded - but go to any dinner party or weekend BBQ and what do people invariably talk about: footy/sport, house prices, home renos, reality TV shows and going to Bunnings. I really don't think we're as well rounded and interesting as we think we are.

 

We will have to agree to disagree.

I have seen a 13 year old expelled for talking back to a teacher. He wasn't allowed back into any Singaporean schooling.

I have seen a young woman commit suicide on entering her first year at university in Singapore due to the pressure .

Forget schooling catering for ADHD or ASD kids, there's very little help for these kids.

I have heard the issues my Singaporean DH has had with Singaporeans he has managed and how they couldn't try to fix IT issues and in the end my DH had to spoon feed them how. He still deals with Singaporeans now and finds them very rigid.

I have seen a huge multinational company fire all their Singapore management and bring in overseas people because projects weren't getting delivered.

It's a national joke that Singaporeans past times is eating at resturants and shopping. The sad thing is, that's totally true.

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Seayork2002

Oh gee mention Singapore education do you?

What someone who can spout an maths answer instantly, Singapore good for that.

What someone who can think outside the box, problem solve and has creativity? Not Singapore!

This information comes from a DH who has been througha large part of Singapore system, living in Singapore myself, watching 7 cousins in the Singapore education system and talking to lots of expats who work with Singaporeans. These a reason international companies have expats in senior management positions there...

 

Yeah - that's a stereotype about Singaporeans that I have never really understood. I have worked with many Singaporeans over the years - most at relatively senior levels - who run rings around my Australian, US and UK counterparts. Pretty much all of the Singaporeans that I have worked with are smart, hardworking, excellent communicators and great problem solvers. I think that global companies often use expats due to cultural bias and not necessarily because of any shortages in the local talent pool.


Similarly, my DH has several Singaporean friends with whom he undertook his post-grad studies. They are smart, worldly, interesting and well rounded people. I think that, as Australians, we like to think of ourselves as being well rounded - but go to any dinner party or weekend BBQ and what do people invariably talk about: footy/sport, house prices, home renos, reality TV shows and going to Bunnings. I really don't think we're as well rounded and interesting as we think we are.

 

We will have to agree to disagree.

I have seen a 13 year old expelled for talking back to a teacher. He wasn't allowed back into any Singaporean schooling.

I have seen a young woman commit suicide on entering her first year at university in Singapore due to the pressure .

Forget schooling catering for ADHD or ASD kids, there's very little help for these kids.

I have heard the issues my Singaporean DH has had with Singaporeans he has managed and how they couldn't try to fix IT issues and in the end my DH had to spoon feed them how. He still deals with Singaporeans now and finds them very rigid.

I have seen a huge multinational company fire all their Singapore management and bring in overseas people because projects weren't getting delivered.

It's a national joke that Singaporeans past times is eating at resturants and shopping. The sad thing is, that's totally true.

 

The people that used the expression to me 'singapore education' were people who went through it in Singapore and came to Australia to educate their children here


I am not going to comment either way on it as I have not experienced it myself but yes some of the stories they told me were shocking

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Guest Alias Grace

Don't get me wrong - I don't think that Singapore is faultless and I personally wouldn't want to work the long hours that Singaporeans do or educate my child through the Singaporean system due to its extreme competitiveness. But to have *nothing* positive to say about an entire culture? Can you find one positive?

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Kiwi Bicycle

Don't get me wrong - I don't think that Singapore is faultless and I personally wouldn't want to work the long hours that Singaporeans do or educate my child through the Singaporean system due to its extreme competitiveness. But to have *nothing* positive to say about an entire culture? Can you find one positive?

 

I really like Singapore culture, I married one after all and lived there as well. Just not the schooling and their reliance on migrant workers and maids.

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For me, ‘the West’ equals colonialism, imperialism unbridled capitalism consumerism, so I do not by any stretch think it’s the best. Yes, our medical knowledge is fantastic (but not much use if you’re in the US and don’t have the insurance to cover it) but I think we in the west have a lot to learn about living with the environment instead of shitting all over it, and living more lightly and thoughtfully.

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I find it hard to sweep all the pawns to one side of the board. There are some things I value from growing up in a liberal western democracy and there's some things I think we could borrow from other cultures. I think the capitalist well is poisoned.

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VeritasVinumArte

Nephew is at a Swiss International school. Classmates from all over the world. At 16 he is debating with Russian and Chinese classmates about who is the victim of propaganda and believing an incorrect truth.


My eldest had to redesign the tax system for school. He took a more Scandi model.

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Spidey_Senses

I remember reading once that when people had done studies on happiness individualistic cultures ranked higher than collectivist cultures. I was suprised to read that as I thought there were many isolated, lonely people in western societies.


But I dont think any one culture is best or worst honestly. All will have strengths and weaknesses.

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For me, ‘the West’ equals colonialism, imperialism unbridled capitalism consumerism, so I do not by any stretch think it’s the best. Yes, our medical knowledge is fantastic (but not much use if you’re in the US and don’t have the insurance to cover it) but I think we in the west have a lot to learn about living with the environment instead of shitting all over it, and living more lightly and thoughtfully.

 

Brilliant post.

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