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Crombek

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Given everything happening worldwide, we've been having lots of discussions with our kids about metoo, BLM, stopasianhate, and the wider issues and context of colonialism etc.


DS1 is in Gr 4 and currently studying the first fleet. One of his tasks is to write a journal entry as if he was there. After some discussions he decided (by himself) that he wanted to write this from the perspective of an Aboriginal person.


Well, hasn't that been shut down by his teacher. Just a flat 'no. It must be someone aboard the fleet'. No ifs or buts. No ability to even write a second journal entry from an indigenous perspective for the assignment.


I just don't even know how I feel about this. Sad? Frustrated? Hopeless that anything will change? Am I overreacting? Will indigenous perspectives be taught, just not at this point? I certainly don't recall it when I was at school.

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Seayork2002

Well to me it is a specific task same as 'write about a philosopher' and if my son wanted to write about an artist or scientist it would not be what was asked. I don't see there being some political motive behind it like 'lets talk about Algebra, but no I want to do probability instead'

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Given everything happening worldwide, we've been having lots of discussions with our kids about metoo, BLM, stopasianhate, and the wider issues and context of colonialism etc.


DS1 is in Gr 4 and currently studying the first fleet. One of his tasks is to write a journal entry as if he was there. After some discussions he decided (by himself) that he wanted to write this from the perspective of an Aboriginal person.


Well, hasn't that been shut down by his teacher. Just a flat 'no. It must be someone aboard the fleet'. No ifs or buts. No ability to even write a second journal entry from an indigenous perspective for the assignment.


I just don't even know how I feel about this. Sad? Frustrated? Hopeless that anything will change? Am I overreacting? Will indigenous perspectives be taught, just not at this point? I certainly don't recall it when I was at school.

 


Outrageous.


The teacher may be restricted (although I'd be surprised at year 4 that the instructions to teachers were so specific, but happy to be corrected on that).


Year 4 might be a bit young, but for Christmas I got my great niece this book, 'Welcome to Country for Young Australians', by Marcia Langton.


https://www.welcometocountry.com/products/welcome-to-country-an-introduction-to-first-peoples-for-young-australians


Bit disappointing in terms of the paper quality and photos compared with the original book for adults, but still fabulous information from an indigenous perspective.


I hope my great niece isn't copping it at school for giving their perspective in history.

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Yeah, I call bs. The curriculum isn't that strict.

I recall first kid's y4 diary task that sounds rather similar, except they were given the option of 3 perspectives to write from. One of which was an indigenous perspective.

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Ok, that’s really poor. DS2 is also in grade 4, and indigenous perspectives are certainly being discussed as part of the enquiry unit on the first fleet where he goes to school. It would be worth seeking clarification from the school leadership on this.

 

That's what I assumed Kadoodle, but I don't have an in depth knowledge of the curriculum. DS hasn't been able to name up anything about the indigenous perspective, but he can tell me loads about Arthur Phillip, how many ships were in the fleet & what they were named, where they landed, what they ate etc.

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DD in year 3 has a similar task. They have specifically been looking at the overflow of prisons in England, the sorts of crimes people were convicted of, the condition of the convict ships travelling to Australia and what life was like for the convicts. In that context, I have to agree with Seayork it would not be appropriate to discuss things from an Indigenous perspective. I would hope that they would also be studying the First Nations people and the impact of colonisation from their perspective, and that would be a good opportunity to then have students consider things from their side of the equation. If they are only learning about early Australian from the perspective of white colonists then that is a serious shortcoming in the curriculum. (I haven’t looked into it though)

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Perhaps word your enquiry to teacher as - "will there be a follow up assessment that focuses on first fleet arrival/colonisation from an indigenous perspective?"

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It really depends on what the task is measuring. If it's about seeing what the students have learnt from their study of first fleet and their conditions/ travels etc it makes sense to only use that perspective since an indigenous perspective wouldn't have that information. If it's about the writing task, can you write from another perspective, then it wouldn't matter who's perspective it was, it would just be about how well they could imagine and write that pov. I don't see any harm in asking if they're covering the indigenous side of things though, if they weren't I'd be concerned

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It sounds like a “recount” task to me, to demonstrate what they’ve absorbed about the first fleet. So the indigenous perspective isn’t the focus. DS is only in grade 1 but there’s been heaps of focus on indigenous topics, so much more (and better!) than when I was in school.

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It really depends on what the task is measuring. If it's about seeing what the students have learnt from their study of first fleet and their conditions/ travels etc it makes sense to only use that perspective since an indigenous perspective wouldn't have that information. If it's about the writing task, can you write from another perspective, then it wouldn't matter who's perspective it was, it would just be about how well they could imagine and write that pov. I don't see any harm in asking if they're covering the indigenous side of things though, if they weren't I'd be concerned

 

Maybe this is what I'm uncomfortable with. It feels like they are still prioritising the colonial perspective. It's taught first, and focusses on unequal and quite frankly irrelevant (to my mind) information.


Why do we need in 2021 to know the names of each ship in the fleet and who captained them when we don't know the tribe names and tribal elders of the First Nations people they encountered. How can we have a discussion about the conditions that led to an overflow of white English without discussing how that flow irrevocably changed another people's culture? Why do we need to learn a list of convict names/crimes when we don't know how many First Nations people's were displaced and killed following the landing?


In my mind they need to be taught together or else we will continue to prioritise the white colonial viewpoint over others.


I think that's what I'm asking. Is 'because the curriculum says this then that' good enough anymore, given everything happening right now?

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Chocolate Addict

The task was write a journal entry as someone from the ship, how is that hard to comprehend? It wasn't write a journal entry from someone around when the first fleet landed.


I think your outrage is out of place.

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The task was write a journal entry as someone from the ship, how is that hard to comprehend? It wasn't write a journal entry from someone around when the first fleet landed.


I think your outrage is out of place.

 

I don't believe the OP's comprehension is the issue here.

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GrannySmith

I think your outrage is entirely appropriate and I completely get where your coming from. Having the writing from only the perspective of the colonisers is privileging whiteness and colonisation. I would take it further with the school.

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It really depends on what the task is measuring. If it's about seeing what the students have learnt from their study of first fleet and their conditions/ travels etc it makes sense to only use that perspective since an indigenous perspective wouldn't have that information. If it's about the writing task, can you write from another perspective, then it wouldn't matter who's perspective it was, it would just be about how well they could imagine and write that pov. I don't see any harm in asking if they're covering the indigenous side of things though, if they weren't I'd be concerned

 

Maybe this is what I'm uncomfortable with. It feels like they are still prioritising the colonial perspective. It's taught first, and focusses on unequal and quite frankly irrelevant (to my mind) information.


Why do we need in 2021 to know the names of each ship in the fleet and who captained them when we don't know the tribe names and tribal elders of the First Nations people they encountered. How can we have a discussion about the conditions that led to an overflow of white English without discussing how that flow irrevocably changed another people's culture? Why do we need to learn a list of convict names/crimes when we don't know how many First Nations people's were displaced and killed following the landing?


In my mind they need to be taught together or else we will continue to prioritise the white colonial viewpoint over others.


I think that's what I'm asking. Is 'because the curriculum says this then that' good enough anymore, given everything happening right now?

 

I get what you're saying and there's certainly larger issues at play, what i'm talking about is the specific assignment though. Whether the teaching should be focused more on indigenous Australians, history, perspectives etc is a no brainer, yes it should. But is an indigenous perspective appropriate for what the teacher is assessing in the specific task they've asked for, is a separate question. You kind of have 2 different (though connected) issues here

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Susan StoHelit

DD2 was working on a similar task last year in COVID shutdown (also year 4). Except her option was to write from either perspective (colonialist or indigenous). Their task was more of a narrative / emotive recount. I really liked the discussions we had about the differences between how both groups would be feeling. I think that is a more appropriate task.

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It really depends on what the task is measuring. If it's about seeing what the students have learnt from their study of first fleet and their conditions/ travels etc it makes sense to only use that perspective since an indigenous perspective wouldn't have that information. If it's about the writing task, can you write from another perspective, then it wouldn't matter who's perspective it was, it would just be about how well they could imagine and write that pov. I don't see any harm in asking if they're covering the indigenous side of things though, if they weren't I'd be concerned

 

Maybe this is what I'm uncomfortable with. It feels like they are still prioritising the colonial perspective. It's taught first, and focusses on unequal and quite frankly irrelevant (to my mind) information.


Why do we need in 2021 to know the names of each ship in the fleet and who captained them when we don't know the tribe names and tribal elders of the First Nations people they encountered. How can we have a discussion about the conditions that led to an overflow of white English without discussing how that flow irrevocably changed another people's culture? Why do we need to learn a list of convict names/crimes when we don't know how many First Nations people's were displaced and killed following the landing?


In my mind they need to be taught together or else we will continue to prioritise the white colonial viewpoint over others.


I think that's what I'm asking. Is 'because the curriculum says this then that' good enough anymore, given everything happening right now?

 

I get what you're saying and there's certainly larger issues at play, what i'm talking about is the specific assignment though. Whether the teaching should be focused more on indigenous Australians, history, perspectives etc is a no brainer, yes it should. But is an indigenous perspective appropriate for what the teacher is assessing in the specific task they've asked for, is a separate question. You kind of have 2 different (though connected) issues here

 

Yes, I agree completely. Which is why I will whinge about it here and DS will do as asked by his teacher.


And I'll go back to critiquing the curriculum in other ways, like driving a dear HS teacher friend batty by repeatedly asking her to justify how she can call 14 year old disadvantaged boys 'lazy' when they don't hand in their English work. And why it is so important that these boys learn to critique Shakespeare (or whatever) and exactly how it is relevant to their lives now or when they choose a labouring career and why the curriculum can't incorporate these critical thinking skills in ways that are more personally relevant to these kids who barely have seen a book in a home in their lives. :ninja:

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jojonbeanie

WARNING: Racist language ahead


Wouldn't a journal entry from one of the First Fleet be something like "Landed today. Encountered savages. Must eradicate these ".?


And even if it were a journal entry written by a convict, wouldn't it be something like "I have arrived at this inhospitable land, inhabitable only by these mysterious savages, in order to serve out an unjust sentence."?


Surely a realistic depiction of the thoughts and feelings of the people aboard the ships would contain racist references to the people who were already here. If the teacher disagrees, then it is clear her intention is for the children to write romantic portrayals of the First Fleet. And if that's the case, then this is a creative writing task, not a history lesson.

 

To be fair, the vast majority of the convicts and crew of the first fleet would not have encountered first-hand any indigenous people on the day of their landing. They would have been more concerned with getting out of their hellish conditions onboard, standing on solid land, wondering what the future held for them, and wondering if this might mean they would get some fresh food and water for the first time in a long time.

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Julie3Girls

So, from purely personal experience, all three of my girls were taught a massive amount about the aboriginal perspectives throughout their whole time primary school. I remember all three of them talking about it a LOT, as well as homework. As well as all the immersive days.

Being able to see things from that perspective is important.

I also think learning about the reasons why the first fleet came to Australia, the conditions, the crimes that got them sentenced to being shipped across the world .. is all important too. It’s part of history. Being able to learn about both sides, to have that overall perspective, is part about learning about any conflict


If you feel this is part of a pattern of the school ignoring or sidelining aboriginal history/perspective, then yes, there is a problem.

If it is one assignment, set amongst other school work studying the subject from both sides, I wouldn’t see a problem,

But it comes down to knowing your school. The curriculum is there, but I think it is open to how much emphasis is put on different points of views. It’s going to vary based on the school, and the individual teacher,

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I’m struggling to remember as it’s a few years ago but my kids did a LOT on the first fleet in the final years of primary school and the indigenous perspective was definitely addressed. I think it’s fine to be asked to stay on topic as it’s a skill they need to learn. Maybe just check in with the teacher as to the exact topics they are going to cover. We used to get an overview at the start of the year outlining all subjects and topics?


Oh and my kids have also gone on to do a full year of Australian history in year 7/8.

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Sugarplum Poobah

The teacher may have a John Howard/Keith Windschuttle-esq view of history, or maybe they have set an assignment with particular parameters for a particular reason (i.e. to underpin the learning they've done about what actually happened on the ships).


I would ask the teacher and find out what else is on the curriculum. And I would approach that with a spirit of inquiry rather than outrage.


I'm coming to this as a person with an honours degree in Australian history and several years of work towards a now abandoned PhD in the area. This is something I'm very interested in :D


Intersectionality in Australian history is important, but there are still discrete units that need to be taught as such. It becomes a huge messy hodgepodge otherwise. Teaching kids about European settlement doesn't negate Indigenous history -- but it's an important part of that conversation. And what kids learn at school has changed massively over the years (no thanks to John Howard though)


ETA: I also think that writing the diary from an Indigenous perspective is potentially very fraught. The clash of cultures and understandings about land ownership and social structures was and is huge. I can't imagine that either group had much comprehension of the intricacies of the societies each was observing. The social differences between Australian society now and what the European settlement was like at the time are enormous -- understanding those in more depth before thinking you can write from an Indigenous perspective is probably a good place to start.

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My then year 4 child (public school) was told to write from the first fleet perspective, no options. That school was classed as fully inclusive and gloated about how progressive they were. Changed schools (private) and child was fully encouraged to write from the Aboriginal point of view - school does not boast about their inclusive practices.


I did mention this to a public school educator who thinks that only public school education is worthy. Did not go down well at all

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Sugarplum Poobah

My then year 4 child (public school) was told to write from the first fleet perspective, no options. That school was classed as fully inclusive and gloated about how progressive they were. Changed schools (private) and child was fully encouraged to write from the Aboriginal point of view - school does not boast about their inclusive practices.


I did mention this to a public school educator who thinks that only public school education is worthy. Did not go down well at all

 

I think that writing from an Indigenous perspective comes perilously close to Indigenous-splaining and I can see why schools would shy away from that. (Doesn't mean there shouldn't be a thoughtful, empathetic approach though or that Indigenous history should be ignored)

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My then year 4 child (public school) was told to write from the first fleet perspective, no options. That school was classed as fully inclusive and gloated about how progressive they were. Changed schools (private) and child was fully encouraged to write from the Aboriginal point of view - school does not boast about their inclusive practices.


I did mention this to a public school educator who thinks that only public school education is worthy. Did not go down well at all

 

I think that writing from an Indigenous perspective comes perilously close to Indigenous-splaining and I can see why schools would shy away from that. (Doesn't mean there shouldn't be a thoughtful, empathetic approach though or that Indigenous history should be ignored)

 


We are Aboriginal, so the child might have more indepth knowledge from all they have learnt and being taught from the elders

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Thanks for your perspectives [mention]Sugarplum Poobah[/mention] and [mention]Pip[/mention] .


It is really complex. There's also the additional complication that we live in a state that did such a fantastic job of wiping out the Aboriginal population that there just aren't the same level of services & advocacy groups that can help bring Aboriginal perspectives to schools. But I certainly hear the point re indigenous-splaining.


Ef appalling spelling

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