123tree Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 So I am studying a bachelor online for a course that is designed to be on campus. In melbourne so it it all workshops and tutorials on zoom. We have large group discussions and small groups. Very few people turn their cameras on despite the tutors and lecturers asking them to do so. In small discussion groups Some members sit there cameras off and mute on. So a five person discussion is just two people contributing. Sometimes we just sit in silence because I can’t be bothered talking into the abyss and give up after several attempts. These are people who have chosen to study. There has been 12 months for them to purchase a camera because most of them were VCE last year. . Most computers have them anyway. I understand that some people suffer social anxiety or similar but it is statistically improbable that more than 60% do. Sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrankyM Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 Yeah that would drive me crazy. 1-2 okay sure no video (I personally hate them but have no choice for work). Do you think maybe it’s due to internet issues as well though? It can be easy for crappy internet to cause it to drop out or not cope with the load on a number of people in zoom (yes this is experience talking). This is especially true for those using zoom on their phones/mobile devices. Just throwing it out there, though it’s a perfectly valid vent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seayork2002 Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 If it was required I would do it but I don't use zoom/teams etc. Not the same I know and you may have already thought of it but is there a chat option in zoom, I heard something through work about one but not sure if I misheardnot the same as on camera but better than nothing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123tree Posted March 19, 2021 Author Share Posted March 19, 2021 The vent is they say nothing, there is the chat option but they don't type any comments and they don't contribute when they are supposed to. That just leaves me mostly talking to a blank screen. I know that in very large groups of zoom that cameras on can be a problem but in a group of five I think it is pretty lame. They have been told repetitively that it is expected that cameras are on but there has been no change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaFoom Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 Perfectly valid vent, but 2 people actively participating, 5 people in the group sounds like some of my old face to face tutorials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bornagirl Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 I agree that in a room of five people, as per [mention]LaFoom[/mention] , probably three will stay silent for all sorts of reasons, some valid, some selfish and it's hard to know which category they are in. Personally, in your shoes, I'd be suggesting that those who wish to share and communicate, do so in addition to the obligatory sessions (where those without cameras and sound are benefiting from your input) is there an opportunity to connect with the person/people who ARE contributing?One of the huge benefits of tutorials is supposed to be understanding that others have the same questions/problems, so that you don't feel you're the only one who doesn't understand. Without their input, which is easier to elicit in a tute, you don't know what they're thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 I bet you they're not even there - they're wandering around the house, having a nap, cooking lunch.If it was me I'd make my comments and then address the black screens "Jenny, what do you think? What about you Tom, do you agree?" Fuck it if they're anxious; this is SO much easier for an anxious person than actually going to class and talking in person. They need to do the bare minimum. At the very least they could unmute and go "yep I agree, well said" if they can't be arsed making a real contribution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojonbeanie Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 I feel for you. After years of teaching adult education I was still annoyed at how few students were actually willing to contribute. For most it really is simple laziness and selfishness. I agree with addressing questions directly at people to get them to engage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caitiri Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 I did a tafe course last year during lockdown with the same issue. Nothing will make people do it if they don’t want to but it is very frustrating, so you have my sympathies. It’s awful talking to a blank screen, especially in the course I was doing which had some fairly heavy content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrankyM Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 Oh yes the non participation in tutorials. I don’t know if it helps but that’s often fairly normal face to face too. Some people find uni and tutorials incredibly intimidating. They don’t want to ask questions because they feel like they don’t know anything or are saying something stupid. I work with a number of first year students (and older) making sure they understand to ask questions even if they think it’s might be stupid. It is a lot more common then you’d think. Actually I’m pretty sure that was me when I first started uni... it’s very different from highschool, even VCE level. Or as others said they could be wandering around and only “there” because attendance is worth part of the mark. You always get those (hello students, it’s not appropriate to be a zombie on your phone while at a session I’m running. At least sit there and pretend to be paying attention even if referencing is boring). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meepy Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 Hopefully some of their mark comes from participation and contribution. They will probably be the first to complain if they miss out on some marks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 This is a valid vent. I'm studying online this year too and tend to keep my camera off during lectures because I find it distracting. On the one occasion that we were broken into teams I definitely turned my camera on and unmuted my speaker to talk and so did everyone else in the group. Dead air at that point is incredibly rude in my view because the group will likely be asked to report back at the end. If nothing was discussed then the person who IS speaking is going to be forced to either invent a discussion or admit (in front of the whole class) that they couldn't get anyone else to respond. That's a crappy position to be put in. It's a tutorial and everyone should try to contribute something, even if (as a PP said) it's just to offer agreement with something someone else has said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Bicycle Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 I did quite a few years ago " night classes", meaning after 5pm business papers leading to an undergraduate degree in marketing. I think the lecturers had a lot more fun in these as everyone doing them was employed and often working in marketing or sales roles already. I remember having great discussions about our real world experience and it rather felt like being around the board room table. Our classes felt like school with only about 30 of us. Compared to university first year sitting in a lecture theatre for 300!But back to the question, are you able to talk to the lecturer at all? Can they reorganise tutorial groups into groups in which people participate? And those who don't, don't get the marks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over and out Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 That sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s_mdn v2.0 Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 Valid vent. That would annoy tf out of me.Can you be upfront to the group - hey, is anyone there? This is shit talking to a blank screen, do you want to contribute please?Who cares if they hate you for it lol. Lazy shots.Is likely your tutor is aware and won't swap you to a different group, so you might just be better off going it alone with the work. And hammering your course organiser with any Qs you have. If they ask why you're not discussing with your group, tell them. If they don't, at least you might get the answers you need.Any group work that is marked as a group? That would be a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkoty Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 Perfectly valid vent, but 2 people actively participating, 5 people in the group sounds like some of my old face to face tutorials.Took the words out of my mouth!I'm in the last semester of my Masters and the vast majority of the course has been online. I'll happily chat on the mic or in the chat bar, but camera on - no thank you! Luckily for me we don't use zoom. We use collaborate, which seems to crash if more than two people have cameras on at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s_mdn v2.0 Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 The cameras off would be less of a problem surely, if people contributed?!People could put their camera on, wave/intro self so people know they're there and then say "hey, blah blah reason for camera off, I'm definitely here though" and then participate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bornagirl Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 I did quite a few years ago " night classes", meaning after 5pm business papers leading to an undergraduate degree in marketing. I think the lecturers had a lot more fun in these as everyone doing them was employed and often working in marketing or sales roles already. I remember having great discussions about our real world experience and it rather felt like being around the board room table. Our classes felt like school with only about 30 of us. Compared to university first year sitting in a lecture theatre for 300!But back to the question, are you able to talk to the lecturer at all? Can they reorganise tutorial groups into groups in which people participate? And those who don't, don't get the marks? That was exactly my experience. No chance of me being able to do a Business Studies degree full time (high medical expenses, before Medicare) so I did it a four year one at night over 7 x years. All of our tutes at night were with other working people with various levels of experience. I also had one 'day release' lecture a week which was mostly young, full time students. Sitting next to a younger bloke one day (I would have been mid twenties by then) he was quite jealous of how my work experience assisted my study - he said 'I've never even written a cheque'. Although it was Business Studies, either Sociology or Psychology was compulsory, and the sociology classes were hilarious at times. One night we had to 'act out' something or other in groups, and in each case the workers overthrew the bosses, joined unions etc. The lecturer said that in the younger full time student group, the 'bosses' won out each time. The lecturer loved teaching us. There's a lot to be said for life experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadwasathome Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 In Sydney and dS18thiscomingWeds is doing as much as he can face to face. He has a couple of lecture clashes, so being able to watch the ones he can’t attend is a godsend.He was complaining last night that he now has 7 people in his Friday afternoon lab group (yes, the pain of first years), as three have been added as online attendees. Will be interesting to see how that works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bornagirl Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 In Sydney and dS18thiscomingWeds is doing as much as he can face to face. He has a couple of lecture clashes, so being able to watch the ones he can’t attend is a godsend.He was complaining last night that he now has 7 people in his Friday afternoon lab group (yes, the pain of first years), as three have been added as online attendees. Will be interesting to see how that works The uni group I mentioned earlier is for Science. The lecturer said it was surprising how much benefit those watching on with zoom got from being 'exposed' to the real life experiences of those in the lab - all the questions, confusion, realisations in the exchanges between him and the students. The necessity of the lab work was such that it was permitted to go ahead in person all through Victoria's strictest lockdown, so I can't imagine that being involved on zoom is any decent replacement, but better than nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123tree Posted March 20, 2021 Author Share Posted March 20, 2021 Any group work that is marked as a group? That would be a problem. Yes!!!!! This is what is especially frustrating. Including a group presentation with two people who I have never seen and only heard a couple of words from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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