Doctors’ study and career paths

For no particular reason (I will never be a doctor), I’m curious about how medicine studies and medical career paths work in Australia.

Do all medicine students start doing the same undergraduate university course, then some do further studies towards becoming specialists/surgeons?

Do most doctors start practicing in hospitals doing ward rounds, then move towards more senior/specialist roles if they choose?

Is a GP kind of like a specialist in that they do further study to pursue this field of medicine?

TIA for enlightening me!

I also will never be a doctor (too old and too late now ) but started working towards this career path many years ago before I went down a different one instead .

Not many universities do undergraduate degrees anymore. Most are now postgrad entry , which requires a Bachelors in any discipline. Then you need to sit the GAMSAT which assumes first year uni level chem and bio knowledge . Your result along with your GPA determines whether you get to the interview stage, and from there an offer into postgrad med school.

Needless to say it’s a very competitive process and both the GAMSAT and the interview requires a lot of prep for most people ..

I’m not as clear on what happens after med school but I know all grads do at least 1 year as an intern, then they do a residency for around 3 years , after that it’s a Registrar in their chosen specialization field . During this time they will be studying towards their specialist exams . I believe GP is a specialization but doesn’t require as many years of study as other specialisations.

I’m sure actual doctors will jump on here to correct me and offer more insight

Thanks Everlong, very informative and interesting.

What happens to the people who don’t pass the GAMSAT? Can they still practice medicine in some (junior?) way?

Are interns/residents/registrars always in the hospital system?

Thanks Everlong, very informative and interesting.

What happens to the people who don’t pass the GAMSAT? Can they still practice medicine in some (junior?) way?

Are interns/residents/registrars always in the hospital system?

GAMSAT is to gain entry into a medical degree - so if they don't pass GAMSAT they just have whatever their undergraduate degree is. Which might be medical related in some way (eg physio or nursing), might be a science degree or something completely unrelated.

Yes, interns etc are always in the hospital system.

Such was in my case (completely unrelated degree). I had an undergrad degree in a Commerce related field . I studied the science required for the GAMSAT in my spare time . Did well enough in the GAMSAT to get to the interview stage , but in the end I didn’t get an offer into medicine. I ended up using my undergrad degree instead and now work in banking .

Thanks Everlong, very informative and interesting.

What happens to the people who don’t pass the GAMSAT? Can they still practice medicine in some (junior?) way?

Are interns/residents/registrars always in the hospital system?

Interns and residents are but there are GP Registrars also now in community practice.

EFS.

From my experience as a mother of a junior doctor: You can still do an undergrad medicine degree in a couple of different places. Then you do an internship and a couple more years as a junior medical officer doing various rotations around the hospital or interstate. Once you've identified a speciality you're interested in, you need to be accepted into their training programme. This involves lots more years of training courses and exams. A GP training program is 3 years which is a lot shorter than some of the others. But all along the way you have to be applying for positions that correspond with where you are up to on your training program. And if you aren't doing well you might not get one! It's not a path to start off on unless you are totally committed, because it takes over your whole life.

I believe you can apply for surgery in PGY2 (2 years after you graduate Medicine), but there are various exams you need to do before you even apply. Surgery takes a minimum of 5 years, but varies depending on surgical specialty (there are specialties within specialties!).

I would think most doctors do some sort of post-graduate study, because aren't they mostly a specialist something?

Monash in Victoria still has Medicine as an undergraduate/Bachelor degree. I think it's 5 years.

University of New England (UNE), University of Newcastle (UoN), WSU and UNSW all still provide undergraduate programs. UNSW’s is a six year course (which is ironic because it was the first university to reduce it’s original six year course to five years in the ‘80s but it reverted back after a couple of decades) whilst the rest are five year courses. As a final medical student, DD’s observations are that, amongst the interns and residents she has shadowed, UNSW grads tend to be more knowledgeable and WSU grads tend to have better practical skills, which might reflect differences in course content and clinical schools within the different teaching hospitals.

All the Colleges (physicians, surgeons, radiologists, pathologists, emergency medicine, psychiatrists) except one require a minimum of five years accredited training. The College of General Practitioners currently require a minimum of three years accredited training. In theory, JMOs can enter into a training program with any of the colleges after they complete an internship year, but in practice, training positions are limited so it is very competitive. Some medical students will even sit for the basic pathological sciences exam (originally designed for registrars but there are no restrictions on who can sit the exam) before they finish Uni to build up their resume as quickly as possible.

It is possible to practise medicine life long without becoming a specialist. Career medical officers perform many of the roles of registrars and senior residents. They are just not in an accredited training program. Some do switch over to training positions, whilst some trainees end up as CMOs if they repeatedly fail to pass their specialist exams and can’t continue to find accredited positions (trainee positions do not have tenure).

Most Colleges impose a ten year time limit to training. It’s a horrible prospect for individuals, who’ve studied at school for thirteen years, at Uni for five to seven years (not counting those who have to repeat a year or two) and ten years of training (ie. 30+ years of study) to unsuccessfully leave a training program, but I guess the Colleges have a duty to the public to uphold standards.