Am I being unreasonable?

Seeking the wisdom of the EB brains trust:

I'm trying to establish firmer boundaries with a member of my team, as I think their expectations of me are more akin to a friend than a manager, but I'm not sure if I'm being unnecessarily harsh.

Would you expect your manager to respond if you sent them a message outside of work hours about a non-urgent, non-work-related issue?

Akin to "I just found out my cousin isn't well and is having surgery tomorrow, I'm really worried" - sent at 9:30 on a Saturday night. I don't have a work phone so all messages come to my personal mobile.

What do you think - reasonable not to respond, or big meanie?

(note, this isn't a once-off but part of a broader pattern of communication; I have tried gently signalling what's appropriate but really struggle with this...)

I may send messages out of hours but never expect a reply unless it is work hours, same as I happy to receive messages anytime but I reply in work time

Are you in charge of approving their leave - would they be trying to give you a heads up that they mightn’t be able to work during the week?

Otherwise, I’d find that very odd and prob wouldn’t respond.

Sounds like they're trying to hint for time off.

[mention]Joeyinthesky[/mention] I am, but I don't think that's the reason (they are the kind of person that would ask directly rather than hint if they needed leave), I think it's more that they are wanting some emotional support. The person shares a LOT of personal stuff with me, entirely unrelated to work; their expectations of me seem far more along the lines of BFF or therapist than manager and it's really draining me, but I'm not sure how to wind it back without seeming heartless

Maybe they are trying to give you a heads up they might need to have Monday off work.

I have the same problem with one co-worker, I’ve taken to not responding if it can wait to during work hours.

[mention]Lukes mummi[/mention] Monday is already a public holiday here so if they were needing time off work it wouldn't need to be organised yet, if that makes sense.

Has your co-worker gotten the hint? I tried not replying once in the past, and then when I was next in the office the person asked me why I didn't reply and said they felt hurt that I didn't respond...!

No you aren’t being unreasonable. Your team member is overstepping the boundaries big time and you should tell her to stop contacting you outside work hours. Emphasise that as her manager you need to keep relationships at arms length.

Can you say you’ve been getting some professional mentoring (I suppose EB can be that ) and some of the advice on how to be a good manager has been to more strongly delineate between work and home. So maybe you could allocate the person a 15 minute slot once a week to tell you all these things since they seem to crave the intimacy. Making it more scheduled will probably take the fun out of it and hopefully they will find someone else? Then whenever they bring something up you can say “let’s save that for Thursday’s chat”.

I wouldn’t respond to it.

At the very least, I’d wait until Monday morning (or next work day) and respond with something along the lines of “sorry to hear that, let me know if you require leave”.

If they question why you didn’t respond just tell them that you have recently felt the need to work towards a better home life/work balance, and part of that is not monitoring work messages out of hours.

Ideally, a second mobile phone for work, so that your private number can be just that. Perhaps raise the issue with someone at work, see if you can get a work mobile.

Look, it can depend on the workplace. Could this person have previously worked somewhere where this was standard? Both my husband and I have worked at multiple companies where group chats/WhatsApps etc for the entire team including at least one or two levels of management are standard, and this is just for personal random stuff, and generally they go off and are never quiet. So in itself I don't find it that odd.

However, it is clearly not the norm in your workplace, and you are not comfortable with it, so I would gently outline some boundaries such as "I can only respond to urgent work related matters after hours" or just a "I don't check my email/phone out of hours".

Do you have an EAP?

If so I’d wait till the next work day and say you’re sorry to hear that they’re worried about their cousin and let them know the EAP contact details if they would like to access some professional counselling around this.

Do you have an EAP?

If so I’d wait till the next work day and say you’re sorry to hear that they’re worried about their cousin and let them know the EAP contact details if they would like to access some professional counselling around this.

I second this. Plus you could add that, as their manager, you’re happy to discuss it if they need any leave. That puts it back on professional footing.

You could also have a dig through the ask a manager site - she has excellent advice.

Do you have an EAP?

If so I’d wait till the next work day and say you’re sorry to hear that they’re worried about their cousin and let them know the EAP contact details if they would like to access some professional counselling around this.

I think this is a good way to gently define boundaries.

I've had workplaces where the team is also my main friendship group but we'd do stuff together outside of work and talk about all sorts of random things like you do with friends, it was obvious friendships, not evening texting of personal stuff without any of the other things that show friendship.

You are not being unreasonable at all.

This is a tricky one, as sometimes you do make good friends at work and will chat and socialise outside hours.

But I"m getting the impression that that isn't the case with you and this staff member. You want to be professional and they are pushing boundaries and perhaps fishing for time off, as suggested upthread.

Nip this in the bud if you can, this kind of thing can go on for years. I had the reverse situation years ago.

My boss loved to text and ring me, particularly as we watched the same TV show. So I'd be getting texts every night during and after the show. Boundaries were a real problem for them, they rang the hospital and got put through to my rooms when I was in labour and they rang me whilst on mat leave to hassle me about when I was coming back,

They also blabbed about my pregnancy, blabbed about me applying for a certain role and blabbed about my DS' diagnosis! Years after they left, they still tried to mine me for gossip, but my policy now is to tell them nothing.

So yeah, if it feels wrong in your gut, shut that down smart. I never felt comfortable saying anything as they were my boss and we were also friends, a situation that in retrospect I should have shut down early as well. Sometimes it's really important to maintain boundaries, even if the other person doesn't want that, for their own selfish reasons.

(Don't quote as I'll delete later for privacy.)

Do you have an EAP?

If so I’d wait till the next work day and say you’re sorry to hear that they’re worried about their cousin and let them know the EAP contact details if they would like to access some professional counselling around this.

I was going to post similar. I managed an employee who had a lot of personal issues going on (though never contacted me after hours about them). I consistently mentioned EAP/make sure you are getting support outside the workplace.

I think the suggestion to wait until business hours to respond is a good idea. My work phone is also my personal phone so I know the overlap between the two is frustrating.

I personally find it is easier to manage people when you keep the relationship on a over all professional footing.

Plus I don’t really want to hang out or talk to people in my spare time, I see all week at work. So yes I would really dial that back. Hopefully not responding to after hours texts sends a message in itself.

I would use the phrase ‘I have a rule that...’ People tend to respond well to that as it’s not you telling them, it’s the rule. I know it sounds silly but it works!

Good luck. I would explain your rule about not texting/calling outside work hours unless someone has died (or however you want to explain it). Don’t just not respond at all as you have no idea how they will explain the lack of response to themselves.

I actually *am* friends with the two people I work most closely with, and we wouldn't do that. It's boundary-stomping.

Wasn't there an unspoken rule, once upon a time, that you didn't ring your friends to chat after 8pm, something like that? The same needs to become expected with texting. 9.30 on a Saturday, I'm not even responding to my sister. That's downtime for this hermit.

So perhaps there's some sort of personal rule about when to expect a text back to invoke? When dealing with boundary stompers (ie my sister) I just breezily say that after 8pm or so my phone's on silent and I'm plugged into Wasteland 3 or whatever and am not going to hear it, and I text back the next day.

This does not, of course, address the issue with her feeling you're closer friends than you are. Here's what one of my favourite bloggers, Ask A Manager, had to say about it, though this is the other way around, it's the boss who wants to be the friend: https://www.thecut.com/article/my-boss-wants-to-be-my-bff.html

@Joeyinthesky I am, but I don't think that's the reason (they are the kind of person that would ask directly rather than hint if they needed leave), I think it's more that they are wanting some emotional support. The person shares a LOT of personal stuff with me, entirely unrelated to work; their expectations of me seem far more along the lines of BFF or therapist than manager and it's really draining me, but I'm not sure how to wind it back without seeming heartless

Do you have an employee assistance scheme in your workplace? I'm also a pseudo psychologists for members of my team. I'm the oldest and an agony aunty. Can you firmly direct them to professional assistance but in a supportive way?

This sort of thing:

"It sounds like you are worried about a number of things in your life at the moment. Have you tried the employee assistance scheme or professional counselling (if your workplace doesn't have it)? I've found it's really helped me get through some tough times."

You are not her 24/7 emotional support and I'd not be entertaining those messages out of work time.

[mention]verucasalt[/mention] (and the others who asked) yes, we do have an EAP, and I've definitely encouraged the person to make use of it on multiple occasions!

I personally find it is easier to manage people when you keep the relationship on a over all professional footing.

This is what I've been thinking; I'm relatively new to management and I'm trying hard to get it right, and I think for me it's much harder to manage effectively - especially performance issues, feedback, etc. - when the lines are blurred.

I say this as someone who is friends with my own manager outside of work, but we have very clear lines and a transparent way of communicating that allows that; I'm not confident enough as a manager that I can establish that with others (or that I *want* that with my staff!).

This is the same staff member who, in *their* performance review, told me that my boundaries are too strict and that it upsets them that I'm not their friend!

Good golly, cardamom. I can’t imagine saying that to anyone.

That is really hard Cardamom.

I wonder if you can raise a different commitment (you can be economical with the truth) periodically and state how busy you will be after work/weekend?

That "rule" suggestion up above looks really solid.

[mention]riotproof[/mention] I'm being deliberately vague for confidentiality purposes, but this is the absolute tip of the iceberg in terms of things this person has said to me that make my jaw drop!