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General discussion #2


Darryl

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Am very worried about the new 'double mutant' variant in India, which is said to be more transmissible. UK have banned travel from India. I wonder if this is where our quarantine cases are originating? I don't want this strain here especially since most of us aren't vaccinated.

 

I think I read that there are travellers infected with the double mutant variant observed in India at the NT quarantine facilities, so at least that’s away from urban areas. I am not sure if other states are taking flights from India? NZ has stopped Indian flights. The UK is only beginning to quarantine and they have already found cases there.


India became complacent, thinking they had defeated the virus, were vaccinating en masse and were allowing large gatherings again. Now they had to stop exporting vaccines. They do not do widespread genome testing like Australia either, which was partly how it managed to spread quickly.


I am very much in favour of short and early lockdowns now because of the newer variants and the level of complacency we now have (in NSW).

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And they were vaccinated....

Vaccination apparently doesn't stop you from getting it totally - it stops you from getting it so badly that you get really sick and theoretically should stop you from transmitting it.

 

That's not exactly the case.


The original aim of the vaccines was as you've said here - namely to prevent COVID-19 disease, and this was what was measured in the first trials.


And now, unfortunately, this seems to be the accepted narrative around the vaccines in the wider general public - that they don't prevent infection or transmission, but just reduce the chance of getting severe disease.


Even though we now have data to support that the vaccines are very good at preventing asymptomatic infections too.


Despite this, as with any vaccine, there will be some people who will still get infected, and may even get sick, with SARS-CoV-2 even if they have been vaccinated.

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Yeah Victoria has declared those areas “red zones” meaning any Vics coming from there need to quarantine at home for 14 days, any interstates from there need to go into HQ or head home.

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Dadwasathome

Yes. The NSW approach is to apply the interstate restrictions to anyone who was in the restricted state during the impacted time period.


A colleague attended a wedding in Brisbane during the period covered by its lockdown (although nowhere near the contact locations) and returned to Sydney. A couple of days after she returned she was directed by NSW Health to isolate until the Qld lockdown ended.

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SA have put in to place strong restrictions for Perth and Peel regions.


Have other states done anything yet?

 

Qld did late last night and Tas has this morning.

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LemonMyrtle

India,where they have a severe shortage of Oxygen.


 

India is in dire straits. It’s so sad to read about it, and it’s the poor who suffer the most.


It’s ridiculous that these stories of people dying, hospitals at capacity, mass cremations in car parks, and yet STILL I see comments on Facebook news articles saying “it’s just a flu” “these old people would have died anyway” “flu numbers are down because covid is just the flu, people just have that as cause of death instead” etc etc.

How can’t people deny the logic that’s in their face?? This is not just another flu season.

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India,where they have a severe shortage of Oxygen.


 

India is in dire straits. It’s so sad to read about it, and it’s the poor who suffer the most.


It’s ridiculous that these stories of people dying, hospitals at capacity, mass cremations in car parks, and yet STILL I see comments on Facebook news articles saying “it’s just a flu” “these old people would have died anyway” “flu numbers are down because covid is just the flu, people just have that as cause of death instead” etc etc.

How can’t people deny the logic that’s in their face?? This is not just another flu season.

 

Probably most of them choose to pay no attention to what's going on in the wider world, then put their selfish privilege on display

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India,where they have a severe shortage of Oxygen.


 

India is in dire straits. It’s so sad to read about it, and it’s the poor who suffer the most.


It’s ridiculous that these stories of people dying, hospitals at capacity, mass cremations in car parks, and yet STILL I see comments on Facebook news articles saying “it’s just a flu” “these old people would have died anyway” “flu numbers are down because covid is just the flu, people just have that as cause of death instead” etc etc.

How can’t people deny the logic that’s in their face?? This is not just another flu season.

 

Because they don’t read the news, is my guess.


We travelled from Melbourne on 9th April, left Perth on 13th April, and are now in NT. I’m surprised that we’ve only had one negative response (from someone who should have ‘idiot’ tattooed across his forehead) and have had seriously overwhelmingly encouraging and positive comments from absolutely everyone else.


Strange thing is thought, they ask as things like ‘and WA let you in?’. Many of them have NO idea that Victoria eliminate COVID late last year. Let me tell you that in the cheeriest and politest way I put them straight - we have had a few hiccups since then (one came from NSW quarantine) and they are quite surprised (and pleased for us).


One woman at a NT market yesterday morning told me people are fleeing Melbourne for the NT to escape Covid! When I clarified that we worked on elimination since last NOv she was surprised and said a REA said that people were buying up here thinking it was safer. Well the REA would say that wouldn’t they.


One thing people in the NT (or at least the people I’ve spoken to - I don’t bring it up but of course in tourist areas they ask where you’re from) is that they know they’ve escaped Covid quarantine exposure due to Howard springs not being a hotel.

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I can’t believe that there’s even a question that Covid is airborne. Why the Fed’s won’t accept that is unbelievable. Can it just be about money and supply issues or is there another reason?


 

Leading infection-control experts say they are frustrated and angry about a federal government panel’s reluctance to accept the dangers of airborne spread of COVID-19, warning it is putting frontline workers and the community at risk.


A controversial recommendation from the Australian government’s Infection Control Expert Group (ICEG) allows surgical masks with protective eyewear to be used in the routine care of patients with suspected or confirmed COVID-19, and those in quarantine, rather than fitted N95 masks.


That has raised the ire of other experts, who say it has led to some hotel quarantine staff being given just surgical masks to protect them. They argue this approach is ineffective at shielding staff from the disease.


The dispute between some of Australia’s foremost infection-control experts has spilled onto social media, with Burnet Institute professor Mike Toole replying to a tweet from federal government adviser Dr Nick Coatsworth that praised Australia’s hotel quarantine system: “14 leaks in 5 cities in 5 months is not just a few. It’s negligence and ICEG is responsible,” Professor Toole wrote.

 

Australian Medical Association president Omar Khorshid said surgical masks were not designed to protect the wearer from viruses.


“They’re designed to protect someone else from the droplets you put out when you talk and breathe,” Dr Khorshid said.


“The idea that this could protect you against a highly transmissible and dangerous virus is just simply wrong. It has been from the start, and now we have good evidence.”


Despite mounting evidence suggesting the coronavirus is airborne, Dr Khorshid said there had been a reluctance to acknowledge the airborne spread of the virus, slowing reforms to make hotel quarantine safer. He questioned what further evidence was needed.

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/ama-experts-slam-government-failure-to-accept-airborne-spread-20210426-p57mey.html

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India,where they have a severe shortage of Oxygen.


 

India is in dire straits. It’s so sad to read about it, and it’s the poor who suffer the most.


It’s ridiculous that these stories of people dying, hospitals at capacity, mass cremations in car parks, and yet STILL I see comments on Facebook news articles saying “it’s just a flu” “these old people would have died anyway” “flu numbers are down because covid is just the flu, people just have that as cause of death instead” etc etc.

How can’t people deny the logic that’s in their face?? This is not just another flu season.

 

Because they don’t read the news, is my guess.


We travelled from Melbourne on 9th April, left Perth on 13th April, and are now in NT. I’m surprised that we’ve only had one negative response (from someone who should have ‘idiot’ tattooed across his forehead) and have had seriously overwhelmingly encouraging and positive comments from absolutely everyone else.


Strange thing is thought, they ask as things like ‘and WA let you in?’. Many of them have NO idea that Victoria eliminate COVID late last year. Let me tell you that in the cheeriest and politest way I put them straight - we have had a few hiccups since then (one came from NSW quarantine) and they are quite surprised (and pleased for us).


One woman at a NT market yesterday morning told me people are fleeing Melbourne for the NT to escape Covid! When I clarified that we worked on elimination since last NOv she was surprised and said a REA said that people were buying up here thinking it was safer. Well the REA would say that wouldn’t they.


One thing people in the NT (or at least the people I’ve spoken to - I don’t bring it up but of course in tourist areas they ask where you’re from) is that they know they’ve escaped Covid quarantine exposure due to Howard springs not being a hotel.

 

The fact that we don't have at least one Howard Springs in every state by now just beggars belief.

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The fact that we don't have at least one Howard Springs in every state by now just beggars belief.

Yes. The Fed’s are spending over $500 million on upgrading Howard Springs to increase its capacity to 2,000 people per fortnight in the coming months.


The Qld proposal for Toowoomba could have already been completed by now and would have cost taxpayers nothing in construction costs. The proposal is for a 1,000 room facility. So capacity would be at least 1,000 per fortnight but potentially more if people are in family groups sharing rooms.


There are many options but Morrison seems to prefer playing partisan politics instead of actually leading and making the tough decisions.

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Princess Peach, I am not surprised at all after watching from afar how many sporting events continued in Australia. Bread and circuses.

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As some of you know, we are due to arrive back in Australia soonish. I am calling that the government will make 21 day compulsory quarantine soon. i just wish they would either have different rules for low risk countries and/or allow for home quarantine, 21 days. Shit, I had made peace with 14.

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Iamferalz

As some of you know, we are due to arrive back in Australia soonish. I am calling that the government will make 21 day compulsory quarantine soon. i just wish they would either have different rules for low risk countries and/or allow for home quarantine, 21 days. Shit, I had made peace with 14.

 

Hope you can get back in time before that happens.


I would not be surprised however if your prediction turns out true. The government is going into election mode (next year?). Apparently 70% of the Australian population is in favour of keeping the borders firmly closed until the public health emergency has fully passed. The WA election result as case in point and also the threat to jail any Australian who dares try and come home from India. The India move is so remarkable that this made headlines in the world media.


IWe know this government is all about marketing and less about actually coming up with good ideas and plans themselves that they can implement well in practice. The State governments have to do the Feds’ work for them.

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