COVID-19 general discussion #2

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Bornagirl
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#1376

Julie3Girls wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:08 pm Bluesfest just got cancelled.

What a massive disappointment for the organisers, after last year also got cancelled, and they got so close.

I think it's so much harder when you're 'selectively' having to cancel something rather than being just one of thousands all over Australia who are hurting, like they were last March.

Still, probably for the best, both considering the people at the event, and where everybody was coming from.
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Bornagirl
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#1377

Another point, and this time brickbats for the Feds. When they instigated the first lockdown, they changed Jobstart so that there was no assets test, and no waiting period (although our daughter had to wait for that to be backpaid, fair enough they were overwhelmed).

Whenever an area has restrictions to this level, where people, esp casuals will be out of work unexpectedly, do the same fecking thing for those postcodes. So what if some people who are suddenly unemployed NOT as a result of Covid, it's a relatively small area.

The assets test is the biggest holdup for many (daughter gave up after five months in 2019), assets of a few thousand, approved immediately March 2020.

I know many won't be put off going to Byron after this, and many may well choose to specifically patronise, but the places that have invested money in this will be understandably looking to cut costs afterwards.
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Lesley225
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#1378

MsLaurie wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:58 pm ACT Health Minister has also come out saying the supply and comms have been wonky from the Commonwealth... looks like a pretty united and pissed off group of Health Ministers.
And there's been lots of blow back from the feds criticising the state for (passing the blame) about hoarding (keeping the second dose aside) saying that it will come in time. I wouldn't trust them either. Then other stories about getting ready for a big shipment, it not turning up then having to cancel al appointment then suddenly with no warning heaps more turn up.

It's such a mess. I simply don't understand all those saying morrison was great during Covid when did nothing and not they can't even do vaccine delivery.
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Bornagirl
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#1379

Lesley225 wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:39 pm
MsLaurie wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:58 pm ACT Health Minister has also come out saying the supply and comms have been wonky from the Commonwealth... looks like a pretty united and pissed off group of Health Ministers.
And there's been lots of blow back from the feds criticising the state for (passing the blame) about hoarding (keeping the second dose aside) saying that it will come in time. I wouldn't trust them either. Then other stories about getting ready for a big shipment, it not turning up then having to cancel al appointment then suddenly with no warning heaps more turn up.

It's such a mess. I simply don't understand all those saying morrison was great during Covid when did nothing and not they can't even do vaccine delivery.
Exactly. No point (given the current info) of giving people a first dose, if they don't know where a second dose is going to come from. We know that even first doses, fabulous as they are, even with the Pfizer don't 100% protect against transmission Two doses might give us a fighting chance, so suggesting they have sufficient doses for the fist round of even more than the states are giving, is just playing games.
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Sancti-claws
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#1380

I wish that my workmate would shut up about how annoying her mask is already.

Its been 2 days. Other people have had to deal with it for months. I get that you find it uncomfortable but complaining about it ad nauseum isn't going to improve the situation.
'The time has come,' the Walrus said, 'To talk of many things: Of shoes — and ships — and sealing-wax — Of cabbages — and kings — And why the sea is boiling hot — And whether pigs have wings.'
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Princess Peach
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#1381

On the subject of masks is there a consensus of which is more comfortable cloth or disposable?

I’m making masks for the kids this evening as they want some & I discovered today that I also need a kids size one for myself. My MIL lovingly made me some, but they are too big (come up to close to my eyes).
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Mooguru
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#1382

I think it's personal preference. I find the cloth much more comfortable and easier to breathe through (severe asthmatic) than the disposable ones some of which have a smell that irritates my airways.
DH finds the p95 masks the easiest.
Other people hate cloth and love disposable.
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Basil
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#1383

Fruitmincepies wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:11 am So does this latest cluster indicate that the contact tracing for the doctor’s case was inadequate? How did someone get missed? I hope they figure out how it happened so all states can improve if necessary.
The latest update seems to indicate that the contact tracing for the Dr was adequate and there were no further cases from the Dr.

It appears the same patient also infected a nurse caring for them. That nurse was completely asymptomatic and unfortunately, unknowingly infected a household contact who then infected the landscaper and their social circle. Thank goodness the landscaper decided to get tested.
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Mooguru
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#1384

So I'm a bit confused with this historic case/missing link in QLD (admittedly only saw intervi we w with CHO on news haven't read much more). But they are applauding their contact tracing and it's a wonderful outcome and all great etc etc. But does that mean the nurse hasn't been tested at all in the three (?) Weeks since the doctor tested positive despite working on the same ward and having contact with covid patient and the positive Dr? Or did she have false negatives? And at what point does a patient become historic?
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#1385

Mooguru wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:21 am So I'm a bit confused with this historic case/missing link in QLD (admittedly only saw intervi we w with CHO on news haven't read much more). But they are applauding their contact tracing and it's a wonderful outcome and all great etc etc. But does that mean the nurse hasn't been tested at all in the three (?) Weeks since the doctor tested positive despite working on the same ward and having contact with covid patient and the positive Dr? Or did she have false negatives? And at what point does a patient become historic?
I'm pretty sure historic just means that they had already recovered by the time they were tested so it was identified with an antibody test.

I don't think she had contact with the positive doctor, just the patient that infected the doctor. That's why she and the doctor have exactly the same strain (same patient source).

Since she had no symptoms there would have been no need to test her until the mystery case turned up in the community (the landscaper), at that stage there were more investigations and they would presumably have identified that the landscaper worked with someone whose wife worked with Covid patients.
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Bornagirl
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#1386

Mooguru wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:21 am So I'm a bit confused with this historic case/missing link in QLD (admittedly only saw intervi we w with CHO on news haven't read much more). But they are applauding their contact tracing and it's a wonderful outcome and all great etc etc. But does that mean the nurse hasn't been tested at all in the three (?) Weeks since the doctor tested positive despite working on the same ward and having contact with covid patient and the positive Dr? Or did she have false negatives? And at what point does a patient become historic?
Unless she was a contact of his there'd be no reason to test her.

If we all wanted to be absolutely thorough I guess we could do what Vic started with the quarantine workers, do the rapid result test every day, and the PCR less often. Patient must have been a superspreader presumably, for two people wearing all the right gear to be infected from the one person. We were told in Vic by the CHO that 70 of people don't infect anyone.

Either way, it's brilliant news all round.
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Lees75
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#1387

But aren’t Qld testing their medical staff working with COVID people the same way most states are testing all quarantine workers etc every 7 days? If they aren’t, they should be!
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Bornagirl
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#1388

Lees75 wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:51 am But aren’t Qld testing their medical staff working with COVID people the same way most states are testing all quarantine workers etc every 7 days? If they aren’t, they should be!
You'd assume so, given every positive is taken to hospital - maybe just a gap in timing, if someone's off for four days.

That's what happened in Melbourne, they were being tested with the rapid test every shift, but he'd been off for four days, so the first positive was once he was back at work. They now have to be tested every single day, working or not.
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Basil
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#1389

As PPs have said, the nurse wasn’t a contact of the doctor so wasn’t tested from that POV.

The doctor was also believed to have become infected when working at the Grand Chancellor Hotel before the superspreading patient was moved to the PA hospital. The patient also infected another hotel guest staying on the same level in the hotel with whom they had no contact.

Covid frontline workers (including HCW) get the rapid test but I don’t know if that nurse returned a negative for that or wasn’t tested. One of the other nurses returned a negative result on their rapid test and a positive pcr a few days later when they had symptoms).

This missing link nurse was asymptomatic and only identified after contact tracing - she is a household contact of a case. She had already recovered by that point, so it was serology testing that has shown she was infected.

CHO Young said one of her big concerns is the high viral load of patients with the UK variant (she used the technical name, not ‘UK’)
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Basil
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#1390

Lees75 wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:51 am But aren’t Qld testing their medical staff working with COVID people the same way most states are testing all quarantine workers etc every 7 days? If they aren’t, they should be!
Yes, they are.

https://www.qld.gov.au/health/condition ... with-cases
COVID-19 testing and vaccination for health workers wrote:Relevant employees who are likely to be in direct contact with a COVID-19 patient must undertake surveillance testing and notify their employer of the test.

This means you must:

have a saliva test each shift
have a weekly throat and deep nasal swab if you are away from work for 7 days or more. You must continue to be tested until 14 days have passed since you have been at work.
have a test when directed by an emergency officer; or
continue to undertake surveillance testing if you work as a quarantine facility worker.
If you comply with surveillance testing and do not have COVID-19 symptoms, you do not need to isolate or quarantine while waiting for your result.

If you are not tested, you cannot work until you comply with testing or until 14 days have passed since you were a relevant employee.

If you develop COVID-19 symptoms, you must:

immediately seek medical attention
be tested and isolate until you receive a negative result and have no symptoms
follow the requirements in any other public health direction.
Last edited by Basil on Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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MsLaurie
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#1391

Not everyone tests positive straight away- that’s why you have to quarantine for 14 days as it can pop up whenever in that time. If she’d tested negative when the doctor was first identified, and had no symptoms later, there wouldn’t have been a reason to test again.
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Mooguru
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#1392

Basil wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:12 am
Lees75 wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:51 am But aren’t Qld testing their medical staff working with COVID people the same way most states are testing all quarantine workers etc every 7 days? If they aren’t, they should be!
Yes, they are.

https://www.qld.gov.au/health/condition ... with-cases
COVID-19 testing and vaccination for health workers wrote:Relevant employees who are likely to be in direct contact with a COVID-19 patient must undertake surveillance testing and notify their employer of the test.

This means you must:

have a saliva test each shift
have a weekly throat and deep nasal swab if you are away from work for 7 days or more. You must continue to be tested until 14 days have passed since you have been at work.
have a test when directed by an emergency officer; or
continue to undertake surveillance testing if you work as a quarantine facility worker.
If you comply with surveillance testing and do not have COVID-19 symptoms, you do not need to isolate or quarantine while waiting for your result.

If you are not tested, you cannot work until you comply with testing or until 14 days have passed since you were a relevant employee.

If you develop COVID-19 symptoms, you must:

immediately seek medical attention
be tested and isolate until you receive a negative result and have no symptoms
follow the requirements in any other public health direction.
This is what's throwing me, either she wasn't tested at all during the time she was actively infected which seems to go against Policy or she has false negatives. I'm not criticising the nurse just that the info coming out with the spin of it being fantastic doesn't seem to be addressing that a medical practitioner working with covid patients either wasn't tested or had false negatives either of which take away somewhat from the "we're amazing! Everything is great!" messaging.
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Basil
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#1393

Mooguru wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:24 pm
This is what's throwing me, either she wasn't tested at all during the time she was actively infected which seems to go against Policy or she has false negatives. I'm not criticising the nurse just that the info coming out with the spin of it being fantastic doesn't seem to be addressing that a medical practitioner working with covid patients either wasn't tested or had false negatives either of which take away somewhat from the "we're amazing! Everything is great!" messaging.
I agree that it’s not great a covid case was missed in a frontline worker but I think the messaging of “contact tracers have done an amazing job and Qlder’s are amazing for following health directions” isn’t mutually exclusive. They’re separate issues.

The CHO said the nurse followed all protocols and procedures. PPE was used appropriately. They are looking into how the virus might have been transmitted.

We know that some people are completely asymptomatic. There are theories that those people tend to have a lower viral load.

Because of this outbreak, household contacts of frontline HCW are getting bumped up the vaccination queue. Changes are being made to minimise the risks of outbreaks like this occurring again. They have, and I assume will continue to widen their testing policies when a case is found. In the case of the doctor being positive, they didn’t test this nurse because she wasn’t a contact of the doctor. They now know that with these higher viral loads, we have to be more vigilant with contacts of the super spreader patient.

Obviously, surveillance testing isn’t foolproof. We know the rapid saliva tests aren’t as accurate as the pcr swabs but it would be pretty invasive to expect our frontline staff to have a nasal swab every single shift. It’s that slices of Swiss cheese analogy- we have many layers of defence. The surveillance testing might have missed this nurse, this time but this outbreak has been caught and contained to about half a dozen cases at the moment. That’s pretty good.
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#1394

Basil wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:03 am
The doctor was also believed to have become infected when working at the Grand Chancellor Hotel before the superspreading patient was moved to the PA hospital. name, not ‘UK’)
The PA doctor?
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#1395

Basil wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 1:04 pm
Mooguru wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:24 pm
This is what's throwing me, either she wasn't tested at all during the time she was actively infected which seems to go against Policy or she has false negatives. I'm not criticising the nurse just that the info coming out with the spin of it being fantastic doesn't seem to be addressing that a medical practitioner working with covid patients either wasn't tested or had false negatives either of which take away somewhat from the "we're amazing! Everything is great!" messaging.
I agree that it’s not great a covid case was missed in a frontline worker but I think the messaging of “contact tracers have done an amazing job and Qlder’s are amazing for following health directions” isn’t mutually exclusive. They’re separate issues.

The CHO said the nurse followed all protocols and procedures. PPE was used appropriately. They are looking into how the virus might have been transmitted.

We know that some people are completely asymptomatic. There are theories that those people tend to have a lower viral load.

Because of this outbreak, household contacts of frontline HCW are getting bumped up the vaccination queue. Changes are being made to minimise the risks of outbreaks like this occurring again. They have, and I assume will continue to widen their testing policies when a case is found. In the case of the doctor being positive, they didn’t test this nurse because she wasn’t a contact of the doctor. They now know that with these higher viral loads, we have to be more vigilant with contacts of the super spreader patient.

Obviously, surveillance testing isn’t foolproof. We know the rapid saliva tests aren’t as accurate as the pcr swabs but it would be pretty invasive to expect our frontline staff to have a nasal swab every single shift. It’s that slices of Swiss cheese analogy- we have many layers of defence. The surveillance testing might have missed this nurse, this time but this outbreak has been caught and contained to about half a dozen cases at the moment. That’s pretty good.
True the contract tracers have done well and you're right in saying they aren't mutually exclusive. I guess I was surprised at the lack of further questions or explanations.
I've really noticed my distrust and cynicism of positive spin has become very heightened. Maybe I need to step away from the news for a while.
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#1396

I'm more than happy that NSW Health is taking over the debacle of the Fed's vaccine rollout, but can anyone explain to me why NSW has to stump up 50% of the cost? Why the hell isn't this being fully funded by the Feds?

Just one more of the Fed Govt's covid responsibilities and costs being foisted onto the states.
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#1397

I heard an interview with Victoria’s health minister that the Commonwealth is not paying the true cost of delivering the vaccine for any of the doses being delivered on their behalf. The states are bearing the costs because they want people vaccinated. Another Shirkmo dodge!
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#1398

My GP told me they get only the Medicare rebate for every patient they vaccinate yet they have shouldered the costs for the hiring and educating of the staff and any changes needed to be made to the clinic to make it safe to carry out a mass vaccination area. A couple of practices tried to charge a small fee for the visit and not the vaccine and they were howled down by the Feds who tried to look like heroes yet do SFA.
It is no wonder so many practices have decided they will not be a part of the roll out.
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Lesley225
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#1399

They were told off as the scheme forbade any charges - the scheme they signed onto to.

Wouldn't blame them for not signing on but can when the public was told there would be no cost.
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#1400

Lesley225 wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:41 am They were told off as the scheme forbade any charges - the scheme they signed onto to.

Wouldn't blame them for not signing on but can when the public was told there would be no cost.
I wasn't saying that it was right to charge the patients. I am sure there are many who signed up who did so thinking that it was the right thing to do but not realising the actual logistics and costs.
Pretty sure they didn't realise that the actual delivery to them was going to be so unreliable and that they'd have to have extra staff managing the thousands of queries and complaints they have received.
My clinic got 400 a week, the other clinic in our area got 50 yet there was 2,200 clinic clients who qualified for 1B.
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