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General discussion #2


Darryl

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Princess Peach

On the subject of masks is there a consensus of which is more comfortable cloth or disposable?


I’m making masks for the kids this evening as they want some & I discovered today that I also need a kids size one for myself. My MIL lovingly made me some, but they are too big (come up to close to my eyes).

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I think it's personal preference. I find the cloth much more comfortable and easier to breathe through (severe asthmatic) than the disposable ones some of which have a smell that irritates my airways.

DH finds the p95 masks the easiest.

Other people hate cloth and love disposable.

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So does this latest cluster indicate that the contact tracing for the doctor’s case was inadequate? How did someone get missed? I hope they figure out how it happened so all states can improve if necessary.

The latest update seems to indicate that the contact tracing for the Dr was adequate and there were no further cases from the Dr.


It appears the same patient also infected a nurse caring for them. That nurse was completely asymptomatic and unfortunately, unknowingly infected a household contact who then infected the landscaper and their social circle. Thank goodness the landscaper decided to get tested.

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So I'm a bit confused with this historic case/missing link in QLD (admittedly only saw intervi we w with CHO on news haven't read much more). But they are applauding their contact tracing and it's a wonderful outcome and all great etc etc. But does that mean the nurse hasn't been tested at all in the three (?) Weeks since the doctor tested positive despite working on the same ward and having contact with covid patient and the positive Dr? Or did she have false negatives? And at what point does a patient become historic?

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So I'm a bit confused with this historic case/missing link in QLD (admittedly only saw intervi we w with CHO on news haven't read much more). But they are applauding their contact tracing and it's a wonderful outcome and all great etc etc. But does that mean the nurse hasn't been tested at all in the three (?) Weeks since the doctor tested positive despite working on the same ward and having contact with covid patient and the positive Dr? Or did she have false negatives? And at what point does a patient become historic?

 

I'm pretty sure historic just means that they had already recovered by the time they were tested so it was identified with an antibody test.


I don't think she had contact with the positive doctor, just the patient that infected the doctor. That's why she and the doctor have exactly the same strain (same patient source).


Since she had no symptoms there would have been no need to test her until the mystery case turned up in the community (the landscaper), at that stage there were more investigations and they would presumably have identified that the landscaper worked with someone whose wife worked with Covid patients.

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So I'm a bit confused with this historic case/missing link in QLD (admittedly only saw intervi we w with CHO on news haven't read much more). But they are applauding their contact tracing and it's a wonderful outcome and all great etc etc. But does that mean the nurse hasn't been tested at all in the three (?) Weeks since the doctor tested positive despite working on the same ward and having contact with covid patient and the positive Dr? Or did she have false negatives? And at what point does a patient become historic?

 

Unless she was a contact of his there'd be no reason to test her.


If we all wanted to be absolutely thorough I guess we could do what Vic started with the quarantine workers, do the rapid result test every day, and the PCR less often. Patient must have been a superspreader presumably, for two people wearing all the right gear to be infected from the one person. We were told in Vic by the CHO that 70 of people don't infect anyone.


Either way, it's brilliant news all round.

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But aren’t Qld testing their medical staff working with COVID people the same way most states are testing all quarantine workers etc every 7 days? If they aren’t, they should be!

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But aren’t Qld testing their medical staff working with COVID people the same way most states are testing all quarantine workers etc every 7 days? If they aren’t, they should be!

 

You'd assume so, given every positive is taken to hospital - maybe just a gap in timing, if someone's off for four days.


That's what happened in Melbourne, they were being tested with the rapid test every shift, but he'd been off for four days, so the first positive was once he was back at work. They now have to be tested every single day, working or not.

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As PPs have said, the nurse wasn’t a contact of the doctor so wasn’t tested from that POV.


The doctor was also believed to have become infected when working at the Grand Chancellor Hotel before the superspreading patient was moved to the PA hospital. The patient also infected another hotel guest staying on the same level in the hotel with whom they had no contact.


Covid frontline workers (including HCW) get the rapid test but I don’t know if that nurse returned a negative for that or wasn’t tested. One of the other nurses returned a negative result on their rapid test and a positive pcr a few days later when they had symptoms).


This missing link nurse was asymptomatic and only identified after contact tracing - she is a household contact of a case. She had already recovered by that point, so it was serology testing that has shown she was infected.


CHO Young said one of her big concerns is the high viral load of patients with the UK variant (she used the technical name, not ‘UK’)

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But aren’t Qld testing their medical staff working with COVID people the same way most states are testing all quarantine workers etc every 7 days? If they aren’t, they should be!

Yes, they are.


https://www.qld.gov.au/health/conditions/health-alerts/coronavirus-covid-19/current-status/public-health-directions/covid-19-testing-and-vaccination-requirements-contact-by-health-workers-with-cases

 

Relevant employees who are likely to be in direct contact with a COVID-19 patient must undertake surveillance testing and notify their employer of the test.


This means you must:


have a saliva test each shift

have a weekly throat and deep nasal swab if you are away from work for 7 days or more. You must continue to be tested until 14 days have passed since you have been at work.

have a test when directed by an emergency officer; or

continue to undertake surveillance testing if you work as a quarantine facility worker.

If you comply with surveillance testing and do not have COVID-19 symptoms, you do not need to isolate or quarantine while waiting for your result.


If you are not tested, you cannot work until you comply with testing or until 14 days have passed since you were a relevant employee.


If you develop COVID-19 symptoms, you must:


immediately seek medical attention

be tested and isolate until you receive a negative result and have no symptoms

follow the requirements in any other public health direction.

Edited by Basil
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Not everyone tests positive straight away- that’s why you have to quarantine for 14 days as it can pop up whenever in that time. If she’d tested negative when the doctor was first identified, and had no symptoms later, there wouldn’t have been a reason to test again.

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But aren’t Qld testing their medical staff working with COVID people the same way most states are testing all quarantine workers etc every 7 days? If they aren’t, they should be!

Yes, they are.


https://www.qld.gov.au/health/conditions/health-alerts/coronavirus-covid-19/current-status/public-health-directions/covid-19-testing-and-vaccination-requirements-contact-by-health-workers-with-cases

 

Relevant employees who are likely to be in direct contact with a COVID-19 patient must undertake surveillance testing and notify their employer of the test.


This means you must:


have a saliva test each shift

have a weekly throat and deep nasal swab if you are away from work for 7 days or more. You must continue to be tested until 14 days have passed since you have been at work.

have a test when directed by an emergency officer; or

continue to undertake surveillance testing if you work as a quarantine facility worker.

If you comply with surveillance testing and do not have COVID-19 symptoms, you do not need to isolate or quarantine while waiting for your result.


If you are not tested, you cannot work until you comply with testing or until 14 days have passed since you were a relevant employee.


If you develop COVID-19 symptoms, you must:


immediately seek medical attention

be tested and isolate until you receive a negative result and have no symptoms

follow the requirements in any other public health direction.

 

This is what's throwing me, either she wasn't tested at all during the time she was actively infected which seems to go against Policy or she has false negatives. I'm not criticising the nurse just that the info coming out with the spin of it being fantastic doesn't seem to be addressing that a medical practitioner working with covid patients either wasn't tested or had false negatives either of which take away somewhat from the "we're amazing! Everything is great!" messaging.

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This is what's throwing me, either she wasn't tested at all during the time she was actively infected which seems to go against Policy or she has false negatives. I'm not criticising the nurse just that the info coming out with the spin of it being fantastic doesn't seem to be addressing that a medical practitioner working with covid patients either wasn't tested or had false negatives either of which take away somewhat from the "we're amazing! Everything is great!" messaging.

I agree that it’s not great a covid case was missed in a frontline worker but I think the messaging of “contact tracers have done an amazing job and Qlder’s are amazing for following health directions” isn’t mutually exclusive. They’re separate issues.


The CHO said the nurse followed all protocols and procedures. PPE was used appropriately. They are looking into how the virus might have been transmitted.


We know that some people are completely asymptomatic. There are theories that those people tend to have a lower viral load.


Because of this outbreak, household contacts of frontline HCW are getting bumped up the vaccination queue. Changes are being made to minimise the risks of outbreaks like this occurring again. They have, and I assume will continue to widen their testing policies when a case is found. In the case of the doctor being positive, they didn’t test this nurse because she wasn’t a contact of the doctor. They now know that with these higher viral loads, we have to be more vigilant with contacts of the super spreader patient.


Obviously, surveillance testing isn’t foolproof. We know the rapid saliva tests aren’t as accurate as the pcr swabs but it would be pretty invasive to expect our frontline staff to have a nasal swab every single shift. It’s that slices of Swiss cheese analogy- we have many layers of defence. The surveillance testing might have missed this nurse, this time but this outbreak has been caught and contained to about half a dozen cases at the moment. That’s pretty good.

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purplekitty


The doctor was also believed to have become infected when working at the Grand Chancellor Hotel before the superspreading patient was moved to the PA hospital. name, not ‘UK’)

The PA doctor?

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This is what's throwing me, either she wasn't tested at all during the time she was actively infected which seems to go against Policy or she has false negatives. I'm not criticising the nurse just that the info coming out with the spin of it being fantastic doesn't seem to be addressing that a medical practitioner working with covid patients either wasn't tested or had false negatives either of which take away somewhat from the "we're amazing! Everything is great!" messaging.

I agree that it’s not great a covid case was missed in a frontline worker but I think the messaging of “contact tracers have done an amazing job and Qlder’s are amazing for following health directions” isn’t mutually exclusive. They’re separate issues.


The CHO said the nurse followed all protocols and procedures. PPE was used appropriately. They are looking into how the virus might have been transmitted.


We know that some people are completely asymptomatic. There are theories that those people tend to have a lower viral load.


Because of this outbreak, household contacts of frontline HCW are getting bumped up the vaccination queue. Changes are being made to minimise the risks of outbreaks like this occurring again. They have, and I assume will continue to widen their testing policies when a case is found. In the case of the doctor being positive, they didn’t test this nurse because she wasn’t a contact of the doctor. They now know that with these higher viral loads, we have to be more vigilant with contacts of the super spreader patient.


Obviously, surveillance testing isn’t foolproof. We know the rapid saliva tests aren’t as accurate as the pcr swabs but it would be pretty invasive to expect our frontline staff to have a nasal swab every single shift. It’s that slices of Swiss cheese analogy- we have many layers of defence. The surveillance testing might have missed this nurse, this time but this outbreak has been caught and contained to about half a dozen cases at the moment. That’s pretty good.

 

True the contract tracers have done well and you're right in saying they aren't mutually exclusive. I guess I was surprised at the lack of further questions or explanations.

I've really noticed my distrust and cynicism of positive spin has become very heightened. Maybe I need to step away from the news for a while.

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I'm more than happy that NSW Health is taking over the debacle of the Fed's vaccine rollout, but can anyone explain to me why NSW has to stump up 50% of the cost? Why the hell isn't this being fully funded by the Feds?


Just one more of the Fed Govt's covid responsibilities and costs being foisted onto the states.

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I heard an interview with Victoria’s health minister that the Commonwealth is not paying the true cost of delivering the vaccine for any of the doses being delivered on their behalf. The states are bearing the costs because they want people vaccinated. Another Shirkmo dodge!

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My GP told me they get only the Medicare rebate for every patient they vaccinate yet they have shouldered the costs for the hiring and educating of the staff and any changes needed to be made to the clinic to make it safe to carry out a mass vaccination area. A couple of practices tried to charge a small fee for the visit and not the vaccine and they were howled down by the Feds who tried to look like heroes yet do SFA.

It is no wonder so many practices have decided they will not be a part of the roll out.

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They were told off as the scheme forbade any charges - the scheme they signed onto to.


Wouldn't blame them for not signing on but can when the public was told there would be no cost.

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They were told off as the scheme forbade any charges - the scheme they signed onto to.


Wouldn't blame them for not signing on but can when the public was told there would be no cost.

I wasn't saying that it was right to charge the patients. I am sure there are many who signed up who did so thinking that it was the right thing to do but not realising the actual logistics and costs.

Pretty sure they didn't realise that the actual delivery to them was going to be so unreliable and that they'd have to have extra staff managing the thousands of queries and complaints they have received.

My clinic got 400 a week, the other clinic in our area got 50 yet there was 2,200 clinic clients who qualified for 1B.

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The roll-out has been crazy. My Mum and Dad see two different GP clinics in neighbouring suburbs. Both of them are 1b.

My Dad has had his first shot and has his second next week(?) I think they said they are getting around 200 people vaccinated each week.


My Mum's clinic (also on the official list) is yet to receive any doses (or at least not enough that they can organise a roster of people.


From an outside perspective there's little difference between them. Similar number of doctors (2 + 2 part time vs 3 fulltime) similar demographics etc.

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Poor chap with Covid who's in hospital critically ill. I hope he does ok :(

Where is this patient RomeoVoid?



ETA.. I found the answer RV. I hope he will be okay. The first ICU COVID patient for nearly a year :(

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ImperatorFuriosa

I start getting a sore throat on Friday arvo, (my birthday of all days) and then it goes away 24hrs later. No one else in my family is sick, just me. I obtain a cough 2 days ago and instead of getting better the cold seems to be getting worse everyday. I wake up this morning blocked as af with a thicker cough and I'm low key wondering if I should go get tested.... :ninja:

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